MTD AGENT SERVICES ACCOUNT- bring clients over

Timing and technical info for VAT refund clients

Didn't find your answer?

Hello everyone,

Been on the phone today with HMRC about MTD for VAT and when to bring over clients from my current government gateway account.

You are not suppose to bring them over IF they are set up for Direct Debit and it is within 15 WORKING days to the deadline when the VAT quarter is suppose to be submitted OR for 5 working days after the deadline has passed either! So for February quarter, the deadline is 7 April, so you should not bring them over for 5 working days after the 7 April OR 15 working days before it.

However I forgot to ask them if it is ok to bring them over if the client always gets a VAT refund and doesn't pay VAT any quarter?  So I rang them back and they said in that case it makes no difference and I could bring them over any time even within this 15day/5day window.

Has anyone else been given this advice?

 

Also I was told that when you bring them over you input their details and they get an email and once they click on the link it will then be set up within 72 hours.  I asked what if they have no email as they are not computerised at all, I was told that I could put in my email address as it just asks for "an" email address, not necessarily the client's.

Im curious if anyone else has been given this advice ??- I'm just double checking.

Thanks.

Replies (24)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

By mjshort
19th Mar 2019 11:30

Webinar yesterday from HMRC:-
The Direct Debit timing is a Banking issue not a HMRC issue. Banks need 5 days to process Direct Debit instructions.

Thanks (0)
Replying to mjshort:
avatar
By Owen1
19th Mar 2019 11:41

mjshort wrote:

Webinar yesterday from HMRC:-
The Direct Debit timing is a Banking issue not a HMRC issue. Banks need 5 days to process Direct Debit instructions.

So it would not make a difference if the client gets a VAT re-payment - I could bring them over at any time?

Thanks (0)
avatar
By johnhemming
19th Mar 2019 11:49

The date on this changed yesterday and for direct debits it is now 7 working days before filing date not 3 weeks (plus a couple of extra days).

I don't know of the situation on repayment accounts. My experience is limited to those that don't have DDs. On the 15/17 day period deadline it was a question of registration as the applications were rejected (at least in theory) by HMRC's systems. I don't know if that has changed, but as the number of days is now about half that makes life easier.

Thanks (0)
Replying to johnhemming:
avatar
By Owen1
19th Mar 2019 12:02

johnhemming wrote:

The date on this changed yesterday and for direct debits it is now 7 working days before filing date not 3 weeks (plus a couple of extra days).

I don't know of the situation on repayment accounts. My experience is limited to those that don't have DDs. On the 15/17 day period deadline it was a question of registration as the applications were rejected (at least in theory) by HMRC's systems. I don't know if that has changed, but as the number of days is now about half that makes life easier.

So the timing now is to not bring them over in the 7 working days before the deadline the vat quarter is due by and 5 days after it is due? Is that what you are saying?

Thanks.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Owen1:
avatar
By johnhemming
19th Mar 2019 12:11

Owen1 wrote:

So the timing now is to not bring them over in the 7 working days before the deadline the vat quarter is due by and 5 days after it is due? Is that what you are saying?


That is what I have been told.
Thanks (0)
Replying to johnhemming:
avatar
By Owen1
19th Mar 2019 13:32

johnhemming wrote:

Owen1 wrote:

So the timing now is to not bring them over in the 7 working days before the deadline the vat quarter is due by and 5 days after it is due? Is that what you are saying?

That is what I have been told.

You were given this advice when? Yesterday?

Thanks (0)
Replying to Owen1:
avatar
By johnhemming
19th Mar 2019 15:02

I am a computer programmer who writes MTD software. That means that I am on the mailing lists for announcements from HMRC. I spend some time in between coding bouts trying be helpful by explaining how the system works and answering technical questions.

MTD has been down from Friday to 8.30am today. That was to change various things on the system. One of those things was the period during which it is not possible to apply to join MTD.

I found out a while ago that there was a plan to change this period (and I think I made reference to this on AW) and I had an email on Friday telling me that this change was happening essentially yesterday. Strictly it could have been at 6am this morning or on Sunday, but I think yesterday is not an unreasonable description as to the day on which the change happened. It could have been any time during the period when the system was switched off although arguably the whole period was dedicated to this which does include "yesterday".

I did try to put an announcement about this change into AW, but I am not sure where it has gone.

Thanks (0)
Replying to johnhemming:
avatar
By Owen1
19th Mar 2019 15:29

johnhemming wrote:

I am a computer programmer who writes MTD software. That means that I am on the mailing lists for announcements from HMRC. I spend some time in between coding bouts trying be helpful by explaining how the system works and answering technical questions.

MTD has been down from Friday to 8.30am today. That was to change various things on the system. One of those things was the period during which it is not possible to apply to join MTD.

I found out a while ago that there was a plan to change this period (and I think I made reference to this on AW) and I had an email on Friday telling me that this change was happening essentially yesterday. Strictly it could have been at 6am this morning or on Sunday, but I think yesterday is not an unreasonable description as to the day on which the change happened. It could have been any time during the period when the system was switched off although arguably the whole period was dedicated to this which does include "yesterday".

I did try to put an announcement about this change into AW, but I am not sure where it has gone.

This should mean therefore that I can bring over the clients to the Agent Services Account if I want to do the February quarter (even if they are signed up for DD and usually pay VAT)?

What about instances when they are set up for DD but do not pay VAT, they always re-claim VAT? (e.g. a farmer).
I have been told that this means I can bring them over at ANY time. ANY info on this?

Thanks

Thanks (0)
Replying to Owen1:
avatar
By johnhemming
19th Mar 2019 16:58

Owen1 wrote:

This should mean therefore that I can bring over the clients to the Agent Services Account if I want to do the February quarter (even if they are signed up for DD and usually pay VAT)?


My recommendation to my clients who are accountants is to start with one client. I would think you could get a client across with a February quarter end and still manage to get them on board before it is mandatory. It is a bit close to the filing date to bring them all across.
Owen1 wrote:

What about instances when they are set up for DD but do not pay VAT, they always re-claim VAT? (e.g. a farmer).


I am not convinced that this will work. However, I have no evidence either way.
Thanks (0)
By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
19th Mar 2019 12:21

Its interesting to note that HMRC are actively suggesting a work around to their own security, by the agent being encouraged to enter a false email address.

What is the point of 'security' measure of this type if its so easily circumvented?

This whole step looks like it ought to be removed.

Thanks (2)
Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
avatar
By Owen1
19th Mar 2019 13:31

ireallyshouldknowthisbut wrote:

Its interesting to note that HMRC are actively suggesting a work around to their own security, by the agent being encouraged to enter a false email address.

What is the point of 'security' measure of this type if its so easily circumvented?

This whole step looks like it ought to be removed.

Yes I was rather surprised.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Margaret Bell
19th Mar 2019 14:30

According to the HMRC webinar this morning, you can bring the clients over to your new Agent Services Account as soon as it is set up. However the clients still need to register individually for MTD(or you can do it for them) and that is when the crucial timing comes into play. They must not register before they have filed their last VAT return under the old system, as from the point of registration the MTD compatible software or bridging software has to be used. This is the point when you need to consider the DDs etc going through.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Margaret Bell:
avatar
By johnhemming
19th Mar 2019 15:05

MTD Developer Update wrote:

Allowing more opportunity (in terms of the number of days) for customers with existing Direct Debits to sign up for MTD VAT (changing from 15 working days before the deadline and 5 after the deadline to 7 working days before the deadline and 5 after)

Note the 5 after.

Thanks (1)
Replying to johnhemming:
avatar
By Owen1
19th Mar 2019 15:34

johnhemming wrote:

MTD Developer Update wrote:

Allowing more opportunity (in terms of the number of days) for customers with existing Direct Debits to sign up for MTD VAT (changing from 15 working days before the deadline and 5 after the deadline to 7 working days before the deadline and 5 after)

Note the 5 after.

Is this written anywhere on the HMRC website? Or is there a link to a video saying this which is by HMRC?

Thanks

Thanks (0)
Replying to Owen1:
avatar
By johnhemming
19th Mar 2019 17:12

If you email me at [email protected] I will forward you a copy of the developers email with this on it.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Margaret Bell:
avatar
By Owen1
19th Mar 2019 15:33

Margaret Bell wrote:

According to the HMRC webinar this morning, you can bring the clients over to your new Agent Services Account as soon as it is set up. However the clients still need to register individually for MTD(or you can do it for them) and that is when the crucial timing comes into play. They must not register before they have filed their last VAT return under the old system, as from the point of registration the MTD compatible software or bridging software has to be used. This is the point when you need to consider the DDs etc going through.

So if I have a client that has previously submitted his November 2018 quarter on the old system and we are now looking at filing the February 2019 quarter by using MTD software I can bring them over and proceed with this?

Or do you mean we have to wait until their August quarter?

Thanks.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Owen1:
avatar
By Margaret Bell
19th Mar 2019 17:13

What I understood them to say is that as soon as your client registers for MTD, they will have to use MTD software from then on - so I would assume from that if you are happy to file the February return using MTD software that would be ok.

The point I was trying to make is that you can bring clients over into your new ASA anytime but the client still has to register personally for MTD in addition to you bringing them over - and that is the point when they can no longer file under the old system.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Margaret Bell:
avatar
By johnhemming
19th Mar 2019 17:22

Margaret Bell wrote:

What I understood them to say is that as soon as your client registers for MTD, they will have to use MTD software from then on - so I would assume from that if you are happy to file the February return using MTD software that would be ok.


The thing is that MTD is two things
a) Keeping digital records (which most people do already) and ...
b) Submitting via the API.

Hence if you are complying with MTD you need to keep digital records (somewhere, potentially created by your accountant just before you submit the return).

Thanks (1)
Replying to Owen1:
avatar
By Margaret Bell
19th Mar 2019 17:19

Going back to your original question about the e-mail address, the person on the webinar said that the client would have to have their own e-mail address because it was connected to the banks informing them about taking the DD payment.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Margaret Bell:
.
By Cheshire
19th Mar 2019 18:17

Hi Margaret
Unless things have changed, then HMRC are talking carp again.

Clients can have D/d with email.

Not all clients have email.

Not all clients with VAT have email.

Its not the Bank that notifes them via any method whatsoever that VAT D/D is being taken.

Its the ridiculous approach I mentioned on another thread - HMRC et al thinking everyone on the planet has internet access and an email.

Thanks (1)
the sea otter
By memyself-eye
19th Mar 2019 18:49

Where is John Bercow when you need him to stop all this MTD ****

Thanks (2)
avatar
By Matrix
19th Mar 2019 20:23

You need to take a step back. If a client has a liability then don’t register until DD is collected plus x days as advised. This is so that the payment is not missed.

Where there is no payment then does it really matter? If it lets you set it up then do so, or set them up all at the same time.

I am not taking part in the pilot and will look at this after 15 June. I am very grateful for all the guinea pigs unearthing the problems for me.

Thanks (1)
avatar
By Owen1
20th Mar 2019 09:14

Rang them again today and cleared up the following.....

1) YES the window to bring over clients to your Agent Services Account HAS INDEED been changed to 7 days before the VAT quarter is due and 5 days after - so dont bring them over in this window!

2) YES indeed if the client is a client who gets re-paid VAT then this 7day/5day window does not matter anyway.

3) There will be no client LIST on your Agent Services Account after you bring them over until April - that functionality is available in April!

Wish me luck then as I am about to dip my toe into all this!! :-/

Also he pointed me to this website link as a step by step guide - hope all this helps you guys. - Thanks for your help.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/making-tax-digital-for-vat-as-an-agent-step-...

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Owen1
20th Mar 2019 11:39

I have an Agent Services Account for MTD for VAT and have researched and am ready to go (I've started a new thread for this topic as well to increase chances of getting an answer).

HOWEVER - when I have logged into my Agent Services account now and after linking my Gov Gateway Account - I have then clicked the link "ask a client to authorise you". I have inputed their business type and their VAT number and registration date only to be told:

"There is a problem - this client has not signed up to report their VAT returns through software. They cannot authorise you for this service until they have signed up."

Can anyone PLEASE help me with this? What does it mean and how do I sort this? Does the client need to do something or am I missing something?

Thanks.

Thanks (0)