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MTD for VAT

HMRC moved my client to MTD without our agreement

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I currently cannot submit my client VAT Return via free HMRC, as the account has been locked. Was advised to set up a Agent Services account but

when I tried to do this I found I needed to register with MLR with HMRC at an estimated cost of £400 and renewable.

This is shocking, I am retired with Parkinson's disease, age 72, and had an exemtion on medical grounds.

How do I now submit a client VAT submission as I cannot do it online, and as client turnover is only £40000 a year I cannot even deregister, can this be done offline?

HMRC bully boys dont care about us small guys. If they attempt to do this for self assessment in 2024 it will cause absolute chaos. By then I would have

quit absolutely.

Replies (24)

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
12th Oct 2021 10:47

So you have been trading illegally for some time by logging onto using clients sign ins and complain when HMRC want you to do this properly using an agents account?

Moreover you are not registered for MLR?

One wonders what else you are doing wrong. Perhaps its time to hang up your calculator for your clients sake and your own.

Thanks (6)
Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
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By Vaishali
13th Oct 2021 11:09

Please try be helpful and not suggest someone to quit a living

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
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By eppingaccountant
13th Oct 2021 18:44

ireallyshouldknow....You Really Should Know as a professional how to be polite and courteous when you reply to a post such as this. The person enquiring, from the facts disclosed, may very well have been doing things incorrectly, but he is elderly and unwell. Put yourself in his shoes. How do you think your comments would have made him feel? Do you get some sort of perverse kick out of this? I really think that you should apologise to Tony if even only on a human level.

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By TonyUK
12th Oct 2021 11:09

Really? I completed a 64-8 Agent Authorisation for all VAT clients many years agoo.

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Replying to TonyUK:
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By legerman
12th Oct 2021 11:17

TonyUK wrote:

Really? I completed a 64-8 Agent Authorisation for all VAT clients many years agoo.

Yes, MLR has been a thing now for at least 7-8 years and you are breaking the law by not registering. If you intend to stay in business you will need to register.

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By TonyUK
12th Oct 2021 11:34

I am not breaking the law, HMRC granted me Exemption from MTD
due to my medical condition.

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By TonyUK
12th Oct 2021 11:34

I am not breaking the law, HMRC granted me Exemption from MTD
due to my medical condition.

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Replying to TonyUK:
By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
12th Oct 2021 11:38

MLR is not within the gift of HMRC to exempt you from.

Logging into client record using client log ins is I understand a gross breach of conditions of use of HMRC's software and if you were a member of say the ICAEW could be subject to disciplinary action too for effectively impersonating your client.

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Replying to TonyUK:
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By Wanderer
12th Oct 2021 11:39

I believe the contributors above are not referring to MTD but to the fact that you don't appear to be registered under the Money Laundering regualtions.

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By lesley.barnes
12th Oct 2021 11:42

You are confusing Making Tax Digital (MTD) with Money Laudering Supervision(MLR). See below.

www.gov.uk/topic/business-tax/money-laundering-regulations

If you are an accountant you need to either be supervised by your professional body and pay them or HMRC and pay HMRC. You shouldn't be practicing without, it is compulsory not optional and you don't get an exemption.

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Replying to lesley.barnes:
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By Hugo Fair
12th Oct 2021 12:37

And, at the risk of appearing to kick someone when they're down (but actually purely intended to be helpful) ... there are also of course many other 'things' that may not be up-to-date - like a current Practising Certificate and Professional Indemnity Insurance and so on...

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By Paul Crowley
12th Oct 2021 12:43

All a bit confused

MTD VAT
I suspect that the issue is the transfer from the old agent system to the new agent system

Your client should be able to file on the old system if you give him the figures

Thanks (3)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
panda ketteringUK
By ketteringUK
12th Oct 2021 14:22

He won’t be able to create new ‘ASA’ account without the details of the MLR supervision. At least that’s what we had to enter when creating the ASA couple years ago.

It is known for HMRC not to close the ‘old agent account’ even if the supervision for HMRC MLR has expired as it was the case with us. Some years ago we traded as sole practitioner with 2 staff before the incorporation. This ‘old’ agent gateway still allows us a full access to satr, ct, vat & paye online, even that it was supposed to be cancelled when we received agent codes for LTD.

So it is entirely possible to use the old gateway without being supervised until any changes are made and that point HMRC ‘notices’ lack of supervision and removes the services from the gateway.

HMRC probably will not agree to this statement but as many things they don’t have a clue about their own doings sometimes, as it was the case with our recent CIS penalty notice for the Client that is not registered as CIS contractor!

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By Leywood
12th Oct 2021 16:17

Tony, you will never have been granted exemption from MLR.

You will now be on their radar. Their Fraud investigation department is starting to check these very thoroughly now.

So either sign up and pay up, before they start claiming back fees. Or retire - much less hassle for you Im sure. (I seem to recall reading they do a reduced fee for very low turnover businesses, will leave you to look that up).

Sorry to hear about the Parkinson's, I hope you are able to control it well.

Thanks (2)
David Ross
By davidross
13th Oct 2021 11:09

I don't think that Tony's client has 'moved to MTD' without telling him - it seems that from this quarter (the first to commence after the deadline) all our clients for whom we previously filed on the 'old' agent account have been migrated. In practice for us it means logging in to our 'new' Agent Services Account, supplying the VAT number (there is no longer a handy client list) then typing in the nine boxes as before - no need for bridging software.

I believe that Tony is saying that he has the old style agent account but does not have a new one, and there is his problem because he cannot get that without the pesky MLR registration. In effect (but not I am sure by intent) it is a way for HMRC to get all agents into line on this.

Sounds like the only immediate alternative is for each client to get a Business Dashboard.

Let's not pile in too heavy on Tony - this is the way that 'digital' will come to bear on many in coming months and years, and it is for us to help them through it.

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Replying to davidross:
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By TonyUK
13th Oct 2021 14:46

Thanks David for your sympathetic reply. I only have 2 clients for VAT so I don't mind losing them. The rest(24) are mainly self employed under £30000 turnover. I am just a sole trader working from home, not an organisation. Tried going the ASA route, wont let me without AMLR, will not let me either. I think I will go the retirement route from 31 March 2022, for me at 72 years old. This is just forcing small guys like me out of business, since I have been an agent for my clients for the
last 26 years.

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Replying to TonyUK:
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By Southwestbeancounter
13th Oct 2021 15:18

I think that's very sad.

Hopefully you will be able to sort out your situation somehow. The MLR are very strict now which I understand but they appear to also be a 'money-spinner' in some cases.

Good luck.

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Replying to Southwestbeancounter:
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By Paul Crowley
13th Oct 2021 17:26

A tax by some other name
Just like MTD and the new penalty regime
£200 every quarter

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By Heating_installer
13th Oct 2021 11:14

Setting aside the MLR concerns; from your reply you seem to imply that you believe your personal(or Co) exemption for MTD should apply to your client(s) MTD status also?

Your confusion of MTD and MLR together with your confusion between your own and client affairs and your ignorance of practising requirements is very worrying.

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By North East Accountant
13th Oct 2021 12:57

Are there any local accountants that you know who might deal with all the tedious stuff (AML, MTDfVAT, ASA, Engagement Letters etc) and sub-contract the work to you for a share of the fee.

Then when you decide to finally pack up they can keep your remaining clients going forward and look after them.

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Replying to North East Accountant:
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By Paul Crowley
13th Oct 2021 14:17

Sound advice

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Replying to North East Accountant:
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By Southwestbeancounter
13th Oct 2021 15:20

Good idea - you would also have a pre-determined buyer for your block of fees when you do decide to retire so 'win win' I guess!

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Replying to Southwestbeancounter:
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By Hugo Fair
13th Oct 2021 15:55

Great suggestion from North East Accountant.

And I've just realised that Aweb truly spans the UK ... from North East to South West!

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Southwestbeancounter
13th Oct 2021 19:35

Hugo Fair wrote:

And I've just realised that Aweb truly spans the UK ... from North East to South West!


Ha ha! It sure does!
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