MTD for VAT pilot scheme

Has anyone found it to be a smooth transition?

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I signed up for the MTD pilot scheme, to submit the quarter ending January 2019, thinking it would make sense to do it before the April deadline.  I use Sage software for the accounts, and had upgraded the software in readiness.  Upon trying to submit the VAT return, I constantly received an error message that it could not connect.  Sage software advised to keep trying to submit and that the issue could be with my the firewall (although I'd switched it off in advance, just in case).  At the end of the afternoon, still no further forward, I put it to one side to look into again the following day.  The next morning, upon trying to submit, I received an error message indicating there was no information.  Again, I called Sage support, and during the next hour on hold decided to log into HMRC, to see if the site was out of service or similar. 

Unfortunately I found that the VAT return had submitted twice, once into the correct period, then again into the following period.  Sage were adamant this couldn't happen.  HMRC were at first adamant it couldn't happen, but eventually I spoke to someone on the MTD team who informed me you can post into any VAT period on the MTD platform.  (Thank god I hadn't kept trying)  At no point did I get a successful submission email from HMRC, (for either the correct or the duplicate return) I've gone back and forth between HMRC and Sage in the last few weeks trying to get an answer as to what has gone wrong, and how I can correct it. 

Sage software support tell me that many other users are experiencing the same issues, and that the HMRC MTD team have been able to delete duplicates.  HMRC have told me categorically no way would they ever do this (and I would be suprised if they would).  My only option is to complete the corrections form, after the period ends in April, and hope this doesn't happen next time.  I'd really like to know if anyone else has experienced any problems?

Replies (20)

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By Matrix
19th Mar 2019 15:42

I am not joining the pilot but sorry to hear this. This is a complete disaster and, as I recently pointed out, you can't amend VAT returns so there are going to be thousands of businesses who file multiple returns early. Ho hum.

They should have let you amend them like RTI.

Thanks (3)
Replying to Matrix:
Welsh witch
By Absolutely
19th Mar 2019 15:54

I genuinely thought it would be a good idea to try it out in advance, but it's more than a bit of a nightmare, (I'd say I couldn't quite believe it, but I actually can). The guys on the Sage helpline didn't realise the MTD platform didn't have open and closed periods for posting. It would make a lot more sense to allow amendments, I think it will be carnage

Thanks (3)
Replying to Matrix:
RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Mar 2019 12:59

Matrix wrote:

They should have let you amend them like RTI.

An option coming to your area soon, no doubt.

However, I like the idea of HMRC being swamped with corrections to accidentally submitted returns. It's the irony of everyone going back to submitting on paper which amuses me.

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By johnhemming
19th Mar 2019 17:10

The MTD system was changed yesterday to stop submissions into periods which have not ended even if Sage want to make such submissions. (which they should prevent).

There have been other people who have posted on AW who have had this difficulty. I have two VAT numbers for two different legal entities and have had no problems with either of those (one of which has now submitted for two quarters).

Thanks (0)
By JCresswellTax
20th Mar 2019 09:58

You know your problem right? Sage!

We have done a few using FreeAgent and all worked perfectly...

Thanks (5)
Replying to JCresswellTax:
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By bendybod
22nd Mar 2019 10:09

And I've got a client who used FreeAgent and it was a nightmare for him, so it appears to be swings and roundabouts!

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Replying to bendybod:
By JCresswellTax
25th Mar 2019 12:42

He must have set it up wrong then, there are no roundabouts.

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Replying to JCresswellTax:
Morph
By kevinringer
26th Mar 2019 14:02

We have a client using QuickBooks who somehow submitted a VAT return twice. He's a refund trader and received 2 refunds. I still don't understand how it happens because from what I can see you can't send a VAT return in twice with QBO, but he got 2 refunds.

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By Louisemunro320
20th Mar 2019 12:20

Our mtd pilot signup is now working great and even more so in the last few days. HMRC are constantly improving it. However, we did have a problem with Sage. Accidently submitted the wrong quarter vat return (didnt realise the drop down box gave different quarters you could submit). Sage said they had never come across this before (complete rubbish!) and we ended up having to restore a previous backup but we still dont know until next quarter whether this has fixed things

Thanks (3)
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By badgmalt
22nd Mar 2019 18:07

I've used FreeAgent and apart from a glitch which stopped the software registering itself with HMRC, I've had no problem over two quarters. One quarter was a repayment and I had the rebate back in about the time it usually takes in those situations (so a couple of weeks)

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By GHarr497688
22nd Mar 2019 18:38

All the packages work if your computer literate but what if your afraid of a computer . It could cause seriously inaccurate figures if used incorrectly .

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By mrshamilton
25th Mar 2019 09:15

I had the same thing where I submitted against the wrong period in error and HMRC have said that we have to do a corrections form in the period where I submitted it - they can't delete the return.

I believed everybody could have this issue as I thought it was where the software entered the HMRC part which requires selection of the period again but I could be completely barking up the wrong tree!

Thanks (1)
Replying to mrshamilton:
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By johnhemming
25th Mar 2019 12:17

The way it works is that the MTD software asks HMRC's computers for a list of outstanding periods (called obligations). Each of these has a range of dates and a period key.

Then the MTD software tells the user what obligations are available and the user should pick the right one.

The problem is that some systems defaulted to an invalid period and HMRC accepted data for periods that were not valid.

HMRC no longer accept data for periods that have not ended. However, there can always be situations where more than one period is outstanding although that will be rare for quarterly submitters.

What I do is to force the user to choose between periods if there is more than one open period. I think that is better than just defaulting to one or other period.

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By StephenGuy
26th Mar 2019 09:56

And MTD was supposed to eradicate errors!

Thanks (1)
Replying to StephenGuy:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th Mar 2019 10:54

StephenGuy wrote:

And MTD was supposed to eradicate errors!

I confidently predicted it'd create them.

Along with zillions of sensible people. None of whom, apparently, work for HMRC.

Thanks (2)
Morph
By kevinringer
26th Mar 2019 14:05

The crazy thing is that the only way to correct VAT errors is with manual form VAT652 (if it can't be done on the next return). Who devised a 'digital-by-default' system that still requires paper forms?

Thanks (2)
Replying to kevinringer:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th Mar 2019 14:31

Why not ?

Nobody at HMRC was expecting any errors.

Errors were going to be a thing of the past.

Thanks (3)
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By djtax
26th Mar 2019 17:27

All the above comments demonstrate exactly what a proper pilot should have dealt with starting at least a year ago. However HMRC top brass are no doubt still crowing about the 'success' of the current pilot - is it now 20,000 or 30,000 signed up - just the odd one million still to go....

Thanks (2)
Replying to djtax:
Morph
By kevinringer
27th Mar 2019 10:59

When I attended a MTD meeting hosted by HMRC in the early days of MTD, HMRC said they expect 400,000 to be in the income tax pilot. I wonder how many are actually in it. I was told that after the pilot had been running for a year there were only a few dozen in it.

There may be 30,000 in the VAT pilot but I wonder what HMRC's expectation was. I'm sure it would be an order of magnitude more than 30,000.

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Replying to kevinringer:
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By johnhemming
27th Mar 2019 12:06

Using a logarithmic scale I would make a stab at an order and a half. However, I have found myself that people are setting up accounts with my business, but still intending to do their next vat return through the gateway. Hence they are doing things perhaps 3 months before they need to.

To be fair, however, it is an easy process to set up for the purpose of bridging hence there is no rush. Even those doing handwritten accounts can be compliant by the time the vat return goes in (by getting the handwritten accounts digitally recorded in a compliant manner).

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