Just wasted my morning trying to get my MTD agent services account running and a guinea pig client up and running for VAT. 30 minutes on hold to HMRC, three different HMRC staff, 2 hours of web searching to find out the following, which I thought I would disseminate to save others the bother. Before anyone says that this is in other articles on AWeb - yes I know, but why isn't it in flashing giant red letters on HMRC's website??
- Linking your agent tax accounts to your new ASA has no visible benefit - you still won't see your clients listed in your ASA.
- Once the "link" is done, it seems you have to then ask each client individually to authorise you (again).
- But you can't do that until the client has signed up for MTD
- However you can sign the client up for MTD on their behalf, using a different web page: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/gg/sign-in?continue=%2Fvat-through-software%2Fsign-up%2Fclient%2Fvat-number&origin=vat-sign-up-frontend
- But don't expect that to work either, because "Your client's business is not eligible at this time, most businesses will be eligible on 21st Jan 2019"!! Anyone else heard about this magic date before?
So much for getting myself ready for MTD!!!
For a change, I really hope one of you tells me I'm completely wrong.
Rant over.
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Replies (36)
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If HMRC were to try and so what they expect of taxpayers and accountants to do they would shut down.
Still waiting for my letter as are all my clients. I can see very few VAT returns being filed under MTD as it stands unless something drastic happens.
I just got an invite to an "MTD final push" event in March, I don't see the rush though.
I wasn't going to move clients over until after the 31 March returns have been filed so late April/early May.
Thanks for the feedback, I think I will offer to set up MTD accounts for clients (if this is allowed) but will charge.
Does anyone know if you have to file using MTD once the account has been set up? If so, again, I don't see the rush.
You don't have to do MTD filing when you set up your ASA, but once you've then got a client authorised onto the ASA, you have to do MTD for that client.
I need a MTD Registration 101 class, does anyone have a link to a basic step-by-step?
I still don’t understand what the second Agent HMRC account is for?!
Are we not able to just continue filing VAT Returns through Xero without doing anything extra?
Aaaaarrrrggggghhhh
I have done a number of videos about how HMRC use Open Authorization (this is the same for all MTD providers Xero included)
Here is one of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxmH7Bo-aI0
To get MTD to work
a) You have to sign up to it on the HMRC gateway (not as easy as it sounds for everyone)
b) You need to use some MTD software and HMRC's servers to authorise the MTD software to submit tax returns. This lasts for 18 months before you have to do it again.
Nope - you need a brand new "ASA" government gateway account that you use on a login page that looks identical to the normal one, but is in fact completely different. And then you have to re-authorise your clients via a new procedure, one by one. Further to this, if you have any clients authorised via a paper 64-8 that don't have their own government gateway account, I believe those clients will need to set up their own government gateway accounts, just to complete the agent authorisation procedure.
Here is a video about joining the pilot scheme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCjuVhTR1H0
Still not seen a letter.
It sounds like everyone will have a reasonable excuse - "it was impossible to sign up."
Still not seeing why anyone would sign up early for the pilot.
I understand that the pilot is massively under-subscribed compared with what HMRC hoped for (though not entirely a surprise to the rest of us).
Not so much a pilot, as stand by cabin crew.
I want to sign up early so I can make sure it works. I don't want the embarrassment of finding out everything I've just found out at the last minute when I need to file my first MTD VAT return, and potentially having to explain to my clients why their VAT returns are late. Sure, I might have a "reasonable excuse" but it'll still be a lot of non-fee earning time wasted explaining that to clients and worse, to HMRC. I spent half an hour on the phone to the the MTD helpline yesterday, was passed to three different people for a very basic question. Imagine what that'll be like in May/June? I've picked one client who is especially compliant, has a very straightforward VAT return, and won't shout at me if it all goes wrong. I want to get him up and running on MTD for VAT so I know it works, then sit back and relax until it goes live. Is that not a sensible approach?
There are as ever more than one point of view on this.
I still think there is a big chance it will be voluntary.
I also think they will "look again" at the sign up process and simplify that, its already happened to an extent, as I think you can now do this without client involvement, but first time up every client had to sign up for a digital account first.
So I am happy to 'wait and see' rather than do something now which might not need to be done until May/June time.
Fundamentally there are no penalties in year one in any case, so I don't see much point rushing to the front of the queue.
Fundamentally there are no penalties in year one in any case, so I don't see much point rushing to the front of the queue.
The cynical might say that the penalty free year is to enable HMRC to sort out the bugs in their software.
Well, that and, possibly, because HMRC's procedures are in breach of the legislation by not mandating all business above the registration threshold from April, but instead giving those that HMRC don't understand an extra six months.
They can hardly start charging penalties for breaches of legislation when they themselves are in the breach.
When you say there are no penalties, does that mean we can carry on using the old system for another year without penalty, or just that we won't be penalised for late VAT returns under the new system, but we'll still have to use it?
Interesting point that it might be voluntary. The person I spoke to yesterday did concede that whilst currently you have to add clients one by one, the system might change before it goes live so that we don't have to do that...
This would be a sensible approach if HMRC want to retain and positive relationships with Accountants or Taxpayers.
My opinion is that as the whole process is taking time we will see a massive rush to use HMRCs helplines and also those of the Software companies that they will be unable to service the call volumes. After spending months looking int this no way would I sign up any clients for this ill fated badly thought out and under publicised waste of time .
This would be a sensible approach if HMRC want to retain and positive relationships with Accountants or Taxpayers.
My opinion is that as the whole process is taking time we will see a massive rush to use HMRCs helplines and also those of the Software companies that they will be unable to service the call volumes. After spending months looking int this no way would I sign up any clients for this ill fated badly thought out and under publicised waste of time .
I'm just getting really stressed by all this MTD crap!!! I've got a small practice of around 125 clients, 15 of these fall within the MTD criteria . A few are on Xero which I use but most are not so I've now got to try and get the rest on there which is going to be a nightmare considering it's just me and a lady who works for me and we're both part time as have young families. I know I've left it late in the day but I've a) been putting off the evil moment and b) been snowed under with the usual deadlines.
I can't see how this is feasible for small practices, I'm going to have to take on someone else at a cost to my business which I'm then going to have to pass that cost on. How is that fair to anyone!? I feel like I'm sadly going to have to give up my business as I won't able to cope with the extra workload which is really sad since I have doubled the business since taking over from my Father 8 years ago.
Anyone else feeling this way?
Thanks for reading
Hannah
I feel exactly the same . After 40 years of helping HMRC and clients to link together I feel badly let down. HMRC are not listening to anyone about this and its just not on.
I have 25 clients who are totally non-computer literate and now HMRC are effectively making a massive problem for these people. It will come back and bite them I think .
I can see myself working in Tesco at this rate, far less stressful!! As for when they roll it out to everyone then that will be the end of me as i'm still waiting for jobs to come in that have to be submitted by 31st!! There's no way, that I will get their stuff quarterly. Some of my clients don't even have an email address.
I can see myself working in Tesco at this rate, far less stressful!! As for when they roll it out to everyone then that will be the end of me as i'm still waiting for jobs to come in that have to be submitted by 31st!! There's no way, that I will get their stuff quarterly. Some of my clients don't even have an email address.
Set realistic deadlines for clients to bring their stuff in.
If they don't meet the deadline, it's not your fault.
It's the client's responsibility to comply, not yours. And it's the client's penalty if it's not done.
I think quite a lot on Aweb deal with all different sorts of clients and so depending on the client the comments come back accordingly. Teresa Middleton from HMRC has made it clear that use of spreadsheets is not what the long term vision of MTD is about. As most of my clients keep records in a manual cashbook perfectly kept and easy to understand which we check each quarter and then submit the VAT through the gateway. Where clients have gone to the Cloud the records take a downward cycle and they simply cant understand how the software works and also any non-vat entries are ignored. They cant understand sales and purchase ledgers and think things like wages payable are profit and loss rather than balance sheet. Most clients fall into the age range 40 to 60 and I have not received one single positive comment about MTD. I have put all this to HMRC who , when faced with a query they cant answer , use the terms " they will look into it or "they have not experienced this problem ". Numerous queries have arisen with the Agent Services Account and most are answered but the logic just isn't their. In my last contact I asked what would happen if we physically cant deliver and yet again no response of any sort is received. I thought HMRC were writing to affected taxpayers in November however neither myself or my clients have received a single item of correspondence. At the moment HMRC total negligent in this matter is making me feel very depressed and lacking in any sort of enthusiasm for the future .
I though we had to submit using 3rd party software that was MTD compatible?
Yes, but you can do that with one of the many spreadsheet bridging systems - many of these are offering initial accounts for free (that includes me).
The question for you is whether you collect the final spreadsheets and submit them as part of your service or you ensure that your clients can do that.
sadly not everyone who does not use cloud wished to use spreadsheets. If you have mastered a spreadsheet you may as well use cloud.
Are you referring to your clients or yourself? I struggle to see how an accountant could possibly run a practice if they were incapable of using a spreadsheet. I'm sure there are clients out there who can't use a spreadsheet or cloud software, but they must be a dying breed. I certainly wouldn't take them on I'm afraid.
I though we had to submit using 3rd party software that was MTD compatible?
Spreadsheets and bridging software will do for now.
Unlikely to be for ever though.
Read the myriad threads on the subject .
Telephoned HMRC to ask about a client who has T/O of more than £85k but as of 27th July is not eligible according to HMRC website. HMRC officer who answered had been drafted in from self assessment to help with MTD vat queries was nearly in tears struggling to cope with demand!
