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Mtd software

Mtd software

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So I am conceding that MTD will now happen.... I am now on the search to choose the software I will recommend to my soletrader clients who still at the moment use manual cash books ... good clients who have already brought their books in and pay my fees with no problem and have used my services for 25 years... they are not XERO or Quickbooks people... any suggestions for software that will be meet the requirements of people like these? Thanks in advance.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
02nd May 2021 09:56

What are the rules ?

We don't know.

Spreadsheets are likely to be accepted with some sort of bridging software but we can't be certain.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
Easy MTD VAT
By EasyMTDVAT
04th May 2021 10:17

Retracted original post because I think the poster is referring to MTD for Tax not MTD for VAT!

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By New To Accountancy
02nd May 2021 10:31

I've been using sage accounting licences for now but I'm don't think I'll use it from 2023, they're too expensive plus you need the personal tax to submit the returns (up to now anyway). I am hoping as above, that we can use excel sheets and bridging software.
All the fancy software I started using, I no longer use, I've gone back to excel sheets and my phone to receive invoices and take images. I store on a USB stick as I don't like the thought of cloud software having a 'hold' over historical data.
Since I've made this decision, I'm getting much more done instead of fiddling around trying to get in into a better routine. If it ain't broke, it's not worth trying to fix it.

Edit : just to add, I use my phone to receive images as I have an app that automatically saves the image to my computer, then I just right click and save to the clients folder. So much quicker than every other way I've tried.

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Replying to New To Accountancy:
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By frankfx
02nd May 2021 10:34

New To Accountancy wrote:

I've been using sage accounting licences for now but I'm don't think I'll use it from 2023, they're too expensive plus you need the personal tax to submit the returns (up to now anyway). I am hoping as above, that we can use excel sheets and bridging software.
All the fancy software I started using, I no longer use, I've gone back to excel sheets and my phone to receive invoices and take images. I store on a USB stick as I don't like the thought of cloud software having a 'hold' over historical data.
Since I've made this decision, I'm getting much more done instead of fiddling around trying to get in into a better routine. If it ain't broke, it's not worth trying to fix it.

Edit : just to add, I use my phone to receive images as I have an app that automatically saves the image to my computer, then I just right click and save to the clients folder. So much quicker than every other way I've tried.

OP

What is the imaging app that does the auto connect?

Thank you

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Replying to frankfx:
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By New To Accountancy
02nd May 2021 10:59

It is called 'your phone companion'. It is a Microsoft app. The image has to be in your gallery to autoconnect, so if I receive an email with an invoice attached, I just open and screenshot the image and it is then in my gallery and on my computer. There's a refresh button,so if it isn't there, 'refresh' and it will be.
It is the only method so far that hasn't let me down.
I can delete images from the computer to avoid taking up too much storage on my phone too.

Edit : You can allow access to your messages too, I allow this so I can save messages received from clients too.

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Replying to New To Accountancy:
ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
02nd May 2021 12:17

Interesting, just looked at this, but features for iPhone seem to be v v limited. :(

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
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By New To Accountancy
02nd May 2021 12:33

How huge are Microsoft too, I'd understand if it were a sole developer.

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Replying to frankfx:
By Charlie Carne
06th May 2021 12:15

New To Accountancy wrote:

I store on a USB stick as I don't like the thought of cloud software having a 'hold' over historical data.


I agree, which is why I keep my cash under the mattress, as I don't trust the banks, who track my balances on cloud-based portals instead of the old hand-written statements, signed by my local bank manager, which I can rely on to prove my worth.

Forgive the sarcasm, but why do you trust that you are better at looking after a tiny USB stick that can easily get lost or corrupted than a multi-billion dollar company which employs hundreds (sometimes thousands) of staff whose sole job is to ensure the security of your data? Can you name any major accounting software company that has ever lost data? If you want to be 'belt-and-braces' about it, you can download csv files on a regular basis as backup but, with MTD-for-IT around the corner, avoiding cloud and clinging to outdated tools is Luddite in outlook, especially for someone who is (based on your username) new to this profession.

The advantages of cloud accounting software are overwhelming. How long does it take you to "open and screenshot the image" from your phone and then manually write it up in a spreadsheet and then how do you link the image to the data entered in the spreadsheet (perhaps you don't)? With cloud software, I can forward the emailed invoice to a system like AutoEntry, which can automatically extract the data and post it to QBO or Xero, using pre-defined rules; that whole process will take about 2 seconds of my time (and even that can be automated so that it takes no time at all, if I set certain emails to auto-forward to AutoEntry). If you are new to this profession, you are in the enviable position of not having old manual systems to update; you can embrace the latest tech from the start.

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Replying to charliecarne:
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By johnhemming
06th May 2021 12:32

There is an important point, however, that there needs to be a mechanism to export data from cloud services. Google do this with their takeaway, but you need to check what happens with data when exported. You won't be able to do everything with exported data, but you should at least have the underlying transactions. It then then go into another system to enable submissions etc. (although the data probably won't have all the coding for the complicated bits).

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Replying to charliecarne:
By Silver Birch Accts
06th May 2021 13:22

To any body sold on the the benefits of the Cloud then I would highly recommend reading a very good article by Steve Boggan, in the Daily Mail on the 26th April last, which highlights the cost to environment.All this date is stored in data centres, often huge and run by the big five. They consume huge amounts of resources, sucking up electricity and spewing out heat.Ironic that Boris is keen on green but has no idea what government digital policies are doing to harm the environment

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Replying to Silver Birch Accts:
RLI
By lionofludesch
06th May 2021 13:32

What was wrong with paper and a biro ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Hugo Fair
06th May 2021 14:16

Exactly ... and the goose stopped looking terrified every time I approached it!

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Replying to charliecarne:
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By New To Accountancy
07th May 2021 13:51

Hi Charlie,
Thank you for your advice.
Using USB sticks has been the result of embracing new software. AutoEntry being the main reason I switched. I relied on software to do my job merely because it said it would. I now feel foolish for not taking responsibility and having unrealistic expectations. Fast forward 15 months of using AE, I no longer use this software. I have given AutoEntry plenty of constructive feedback and explained what needs improving; the list was huge. I also said I would come back, but the workload created by current issues would need fixing; I am not sure if I'll ever know if they are – they always said they were anyway.
AE was aware of these issues, so it was not just me. The final straw came about three months ago. I kept trusting AE would fix these problems, and I would complete other tasks and leave invoices; this built up huge backlogs of work for me to do – or should I say 'I' built up huge backlogs of work because I relied on AE.
If AE works for you, I envy you as it seemed the perfect solution for me. I even recommended AE on here, which I regret because I could have caused many issues if Awebbers had acted on my advice/opinion. I later confirmed this, too, on another thread.
I am very keen to learn about the latest tech; my last trial was Satago; I always offer to be the 'guineapig' for new software. I give much of my time away purely to embrace the latest tech, so your assumption was incorrect about me not embracing change.
Cloud being an advantage has always been my presumption, but experience with cloud software has taught me otherwise. I am still very open to (and still use) cloud software. I doubt I have my 'forever' method as I am always looking to increase productivity and have a smooth flow from the client to me.
Snapping an image and sending it to AE could (and did) take about 2 seconds but dealing with the background issues was counterintuitive. It was quicker to spend 1 minute photographing the image, right-clicking and renaming and then attaching to the accounting software, knowing the job was done and done correctly.
I do not believe data is necessarily safer on a USB stick, nor do I believe it is safer with a multi-billion dollar company. I have no opinion on either, really. I just have a job to do, and I need to 'see the woods for the trees'.
Thank you.

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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
02nd May 2021 11:08

VT Transaction+

Easy to use, editable transaction, affordable, and cloud-free. The editable transactions seems important to me, so that we (you and I, that is) are able to edit clients' efforts without breaking the digital chain. I think they still offer a free trial if you want to suck it and see.

But aren't you being a little premature? Given that MTD for VAT isn't going to be compulsory for sub-£85k t/o businesses until their first VAT return commencing 1st April 2022 (so they'll still be able to submit their q/e March 2022 returns the old way, even if those are filed during April or by 7th May 2022). I'm basing that premise on the fact that today, 2nd May, I'm filing two quarter ended March 2021 VAT returns the old non-MTD way [via my HMRC Online Service for Agents Account, and not my new-fangled Agent Services Account I'll have you know!]; and to be on the safe side I already phoned the VAT helpline Friday 30th, who confirmed that (old) facility will continue until 7th May.

Similarly, for your non-VAT registered sole traders you're looking at years commencing April 2023 for MTD reporting (so presumably the y/e 31st March - or perhaps even 5th April - 2023 accounts will be submitted via existing methods ie on a SA return by January 2024).

I stand to be corrected on my dates if anyone else knows better.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By Geoff56
03rd May 2021 07:52

My clear understanding is that MTD for IT is presently scheduled to apply to the first accounting period beginning after 5th April 2023. So traders with a 5th April year end, and all landlords, will have to use it from 6th April 2023. However, traders with a 31st March year end, will not be caught until 1st April 2024.

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Replying to Geoff56:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
04th May 2021 11:29

Thanks Geoff, that's interesting. So a 5th April year end could perhaps jump on the bandwagon by shortening his year end to 31st March, I guess.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By Geoff56
04th May 2021 12:56

I will certainly look at offering some of my clients a move to a 31st March year end, where appropriate, before the day of reckoning arrives.

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Tornado
By Tornado
02nd May 2021 11:38

'So I am conceding that MTD will now happen'

Maybe, but not for a few years yet. There are still massive problems to overcome and in the wake of a pandemic, HMRC are struggling now to deal with day to day matters and simply will not have the resources to deal with MTD from 2023.

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Replying to Tornado:
Morph
By kevinringer
11th May 2021 14:59

I agree Tornado but look at CGT 30-day reporting, HMRC were warned they didn't have the resources but they steam-rollered on anyway and now they've got 130 day backlog of paper declarations because HMRC completely failed to accurately forecast the number of digitally-incapable taxpayers there are. So HMRC might yet steam-roller into MTD with maximum blinkers in place.

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By DaveyJonesLocker
02nd May 2021 12:22

You’re planning way too early, plenty of time for hmrc to water down plans or change the date based on their track record

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Replying to DaveyJonesLocker:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
02nd May 2021 13:18

Agreed. I'm planning on giving many of my self-employed clients the same notice they give me each January by emailing them the last week of March '22.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By Paul Crowley
02nd May 2021 17:12

And by then we will have a better view of who really should be doing it

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By Paul Crowley
02nd May 2021 16:19

I intend to wait out
Mentioned to a couple, the reaction was along the lines of blaming the messenger.
Given that MTD VAT warm up was that spreadsheets could never cope and the cost of adapting spreadsheets would be so high and only 'proper' software would be accepted
Come the day spreadsheets and bridging worked.

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By JD
02nd May 2021 17:22

For me encouraging clients to prepare something by taking a few pictures on their phone is not strong enough. Too many clients seem incapable of telling the difference between an invoice, proformas, quotes or a statements, and lack excel skills. In the interests of accuracy have you thought about going from bank data?

At least then you can have some confidence and a reduced level of duplications, if the bank is reconciled.

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By johnhemming
02nd May 2021 17:46

HMRC have a list of providers:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-software-thats-compatible-with-making-t...

Three offer a free service for some or all people.

Although Bridging is allowed there are a lot more numbers to transfer. Digital records are only needed for the quarterly reports.

Personally I would suggest for the people you are proposing that they try out things like online cashbooks (if they do SA on a cash basis). It will be a lot less fiddly than bridging (I do both).

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By mikeyban
02nd May 2021 20:09

Thank you for all your answers ... the theme is that people think it will be diluted... we will wait and see...many of my network of accountants I speak to are dreading it and are stating that they will retire if they are of the right age...

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Replying to mikeyban:
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By Geoff56
03rd May 2021 08:42

Yup, me too; even though I'm not sure I can afford to, nor is it the way I would have chosen to go. However, someone once said to me that most people need some kind of trigger to retire: I guess this will be mine.

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Replying to mikeyban:
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By johnhemming
04th May 2021 07:35

mikeyban wrote:

the theme is that people think it will be diluted


What I would expect is a gradual ramping up of enforcement. I would not expect them to say that people don't have to do quarterly figures, though.

When it comes to the rest (all the other endpoints) those are defined by the nature of tax law. ITSA has to handle all of the SA10n forms.

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By tom123
03rd May 2021 08:46

There is free online software about, that will do bank feeds.
One I use is Bokio, (caveat - just for my own small property businesses)
Each time I log in the bank transactions are there waiting for me to post.

We are supposed to be the type of people that can sort this stuff out - chin up everyone.

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Replying to tom123:
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By johnhemming
04th May 2021 07:23

There is a lot more programming writing MTD ITSA than MTD VAT. I would think this will hold back the number of companies that offer this service.

It also has a lot more functions. For example reconciling CIS from the users data to that held by HMRC.

VT have said they will do it. One would expect Sage, Xero and Quickbooks to do it

The list is kept up to date here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-software-thats-compatible-with-making-t...

I keep an eye on it and the number of companies added has not been that many over time.

However, although it is working now I am expecting the early adopters to start this year. If I were an accountant I would think it would be worth experimenting with it at an early stage.

I will do an updated video about the various submissions, but the list is available at HMRC here:

https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs/api?filter=...

I have written all of these interfaces (in the sense that I actually do the coding) and am happy to answer any questions.

Note that

https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs/api/service...

For example has 31 different endpoints. That is one of the bigger ones, but it demonstrates that the order of magnitude of the task is massively more than VAT which had only 5 endpoints in total.

In the end the user has to only worry about using the system, however.

It does not yet cover all of income tax although I think they are going to cover it all (including clerics and politicians).

For example this one:
https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs/api/service...

is

seafarers: Financial details about deductions and time spent working on a ship.

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Replying to johnhemming:
RLI
By lionofludesch
04th May 2021 10:46

johnhemming wrote:

There is a lot more programming writing MTD ITSA than MTD VAT.

Yes, because it's more complicated. Too complicated for the hoi polloi to be using.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By johnhemming
04th May 2021 11:10

As I said previously I talk to non specialists who are having no problem with MTD ITSA.

Its problems are things like not doing SEISS etc.

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By Marlinman
06th May 2021 10:15

I'm not doing anything until things become clearer. The majority of my clients will use spreadsheets with bridging software and the few who use Sage will fire off their own unchecked quarterly submissions. I will then correct all the mistakes for the final submission each year as this will be the only one that matters for tax purposes. I currently use Taxfiler and will wait to see if they come up with anything to make things more efficient.

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Replying to Marlinman:
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By johnhemming
06th May 2021 10:55

Marlinman wrote:

I will then correct all the mistakes for the final submission each year as this will be the only one that matters for tax purposes.


This is one way of doing it. Another is to submit an end of year adjustment as their agent.
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By sammerchant
06th May 2021 10:38

I have been using Forbes for quite some years now and am very satisfied. They will be producing compatible software.

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By North East Accountant
06th May 2021 11:00

To all sole trader/partnership clients with 05/04 year end we'll ask them in February 2022 - "Would you like to have to comply with MTDfIT on 06/04/23 or one year later on 01/04/24? Pick a date.

Virtually all will say 01/04/24 so we'll move their year end 05/04/22 back to 31/03/22 and that's them all delayed for another year from 2023 to 2024. So a nice slow build up for self-employed with none 05/04 year ends as we work through 2023.

The big problem is the property landlords. No-one in HMRC or any of the big software companies has a clue how this is going to work for joint property lettings (one set of books like a partnership or multiple sets of records with just each owners income share in - how that works with one bank account to reconcile - who knows).

In answer to your question if they are not Xero or QBO people it's too early to say......but at least start the client education program with some good habits they should be getting into now.

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By ArianBloodwood
06th May 2021 11:23

I'm using the looming spectre of MTD ITSA to encourage more of my clients to take advantage of the slew of new apps made possible by Open Banking and actually make their bookkeeping both much simpler and totally timely. Don't know if it's cos they trust me or whether I've been able to put across the message well enough, but I'm getting a surprising rate of positive response.

Xero, Sage and QBO are way too complex, fiddly and expensive for my S-E and sole director clients. Here's what I'm recommending:
* Pandle at £6/mth is excellent for small companies and S-E ppl - good range of bank feeds (tho not every bank yet), very adaptable Chart of Accts, and enough flexibility for Year End entries etc.
* Bokio is free, good range of bank feeds, but fixed Chart of Accts so it's fine for very standard simple companies and S-E sole traders.
* Quickfile (£1.50 - £3.50/mth) is very cheap, a great self-help community around it, good bank feeds, fully flexible Cht of Accts, a big list of features which can be turned off or on, tho a somewhat clunky older-style interface (it originated 20 years ago).
* Finally, new kid Untied (£10/mth) is all about MTD ITSA, tailored specifically for S-E sole traders but allows dividend and property income streams, good bank feeds, and enables direct filing of SATR including tax calcs etc. Altho United is more pricey I'm recommending it to clients who I'm coaching to be able to file their own SATR and use me less.

All 4 of these have an accountant interface/link.

I reckon MTD ITSA is inevitable *sometime* - so why not capitalise on it to get our clients more connected to their money and their trading figures?

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By Donald MacKenzie
06th May 2021 11:45

VT Transaction plus
Brilliantly simple

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By mallikagupte
06th May 2021 14:24

FreshBooks is a great tool for MTD compliant software. It is easy to use and one of the best invoicing tools on the market.

freshbooks.com/en-gb

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Morph
By kevinringer
11th May 2021 15:05

The software industry started telling us several years ago to get ready for MTD. I didn't and even now mandation is 2 years away. So I intend to wait and see. Next year MTD will be extended to voluntary VAT registered businesses. I have a lot of small-scale farmers who are digitally-challenged so I will be applying for exemption for them. I've already got exemption for 25% of my mandated VAT clients. I realistically expect to get exemption for over half my voluntary registered clients. When (if?) MTD ITSA starts I will apply for exemption for loads of my clients. I fully support digitisation when it benefits the client, but oppose it when there is no benefit. The latest MTD ITSA pilot has only recently started so it'll be interesting to see the outcome. Having said that, HMRC launched the original MTD ITSA pilot way back in 2017 but we've heard nothing since which suggest it wasn't a resounding success.

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