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MTD, VAT and companies

Guidance and legislation seems vague on start date for companies and submitting VAT under MTD

Under the old timetable, VAT for MTD was from 1 April 2019 for all VAT registered businesses (including companies). We had plenty of warnings that companies were included in the guidance. 

Under the new timetable, VAT for MTD is from 1 April 2019 for all VAT registered businesses above the VAT threshold. I assume that the definition of businesses is the VAT one and not the income tax one. However assumption is a dangerous thing but I can't see a definitive answer from HMRC or ICAEW etc. 

We have a few companies who have bespoke accounting systems due to their industry or international connections. Less than 18 months, is don't long to change systems. 

 

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09th Oct 2017 09:28

No, you're right.

And, as I said on an earlier thread, you may want to start the new system from the beginning of the accounting period, which brings it forward even further.

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09th Oct 2017 16:27

The Finance Bill refers to persons 'within the charge to income tax'.

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to jon_griffey
09th Oct 2017 16:33

Companies excluded then ?

Sounds good to me ........

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to jon_griffey
09th Oct 2017 17:05

You are quite correct but this is where it gets difficult. It is using and changing ITTOIA 2005 that only applies to sole traders and partnerships. This is the legalisation in anticipation of the quarterly reporting etc.

Under the VAT point it does refer to "duty of taxable person to keep records". But this "person" is different to the person in the earlier part of the Finance Bill as this is changing the legislation of VATA 1994. Where the taxable person I believe includes all VAT registered businesses which encompasses sole traders, partnerships, limited companies possibly even charities and trusts.

The problem I have is that I have not seen in simple language that clients understand from someone like the HMRC that yes companies are included.

I have had verbal advice from a software company that it does apply. But a cynical client will say "of course they will say that as they want to sell the latest version of their software"

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to david.bransbury
09th Oct 2017 17:26

Found something on ICAEW website that says companies are included.

Thought I had checked there before but it does say the page was updated on 9 Oct 2017.

Happy now (but clients won't be).

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to david.bransbury
09th Oct 2017 18:16

Under the VAT section it doesn't seem to say very much specific at all other than that they may make regulations and that regulations may make different provision for different cases. So like all things MTD it remains 'we don't know'.

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to jon_griffey
09th Oct 2017 18:57

Sorry but I would very much surprised if they bring in VAT rules that only to sole traders and partnerships and not companies.

But I totally agree with you the detail is in the regulations. A further MTD consultation is going on which ends on 10 November 2017. After they publish the results of this, they may publish the final regulations and then after that we may get some guidance from HMRC about the practicalities.

However if the ICAEW have offered their opinion then this good enough for me when speaking to clients.

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to jon_griffey
22nd Oct 2017 11:05

Clarifiy .

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to jon_griffey
22nd Oct 2017 11:05

Clarifiy .

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10th Oct 2017 11:50

Finance Bill 2017, Clause 60 & 61 are "Digital reporting and record-keeping for income tax"
Clause 62 "Digital reporting and record-keeping for VAT".

I can't see that Clause 62 is limited by Clause 60/61. Clause 62 amends Schedule 11 VATA 1994 so seems to affect all VAT taxable persons (includes companies). :-((

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