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MTD Webinar

Rebecca Bennyworth

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I watched RB's webinar today on MTD and came away somewhat dismayed by it all. Rebecca is full on board with MTD and due to her dedication and expertise is gearing up her firm to be MTD ready.  I too think I am quite good at what I do and provide a good service to my clients. However, I am one man band and many of my clients use spreadsheets and some still keep handwritten records. I am happy and my clients are happy. I do not have the time or inclination to try and train them on software and come MTD and digital records, the workload will increase dramatically. Rebecca's somewhat blunt advice is if your not on board, then find another job. So there may be a trip to Asda or Tesco in the near future to seek out a new career in perhaps shelf stacking. Overall, I found that Rebecca is not really on the side of the small accountancy business such as myself, and does not appear to even care that many of us could potentially lose our livelihood to perhaps bigger firms. And what about our small clients, who in reality will have no interests in changing the habits of a lifetime. Why should they be forced into this?

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By David Ex
20th Oct 2021 14:11

To be fair, not Rebecca’s fault that MTD for IT is being steam rollered through with zero consideration for the consequences for you and your clients.

Have you written to your MP?

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Replying to David Ex:
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By Paul Crowley
20th Oct 2021 21:34

I did and so did one of my clients
He and the other MP for my town were in the cabinet at the time.
Boris shuffled both to the back benches

Was that my fault they lost their higher salaries?

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By rmillaree
20th Oct 2021 14:38

Based on where we are now why would you or anyone worry about it until approx 3-6 months before this becomes reality. The latest delay until6/4/2024 surely means that there is no need to worry here.
From an efficiency point of view anyone who has up to now done absoluely zilch in that regard is sitting reasonably pretty as they don't really need to worry obout it till the back end of 2023 - by which time the whole thing may have been scrapped.

In the meantime you can use MTD as a tool try and get clients to be as MTD ready as possible over the next few years - thats reasonably consistent with making your life as accountant easier anyway most of the time.

Its reasonably clear the most efficient cheapest reliable packages may not turn up till about the time this becomes mandatory - so i for one dont want to waste any time learning anything MTD if its likely that the final version wil be far removed fromwhere we are now. The recent mtd threads where the process has ben explained evidence fully to me how unfit for purpose and unecessary whole whole show is for anyone not claiming means testted benefits where rightly so there monthly incoem may matter to the powers that be.

In summary ostrich syndrome may work here :)

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Replying to rmillaree:
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By bernard michael
21st Oct 2021 09:57

rmillaree wrote:

Based on where we are now why would you or anyone worry about it until approx 3-6 months before this becomes reality. The latest delay until6/4/2024 surely means that there is no need to worry here.
From an efficiency point of view anyone who has up to now done absoluely zilch in that regard is sitting reasonably pretty as they don't really need to worry obout it till the back end of 2023 - by which time the whole thing may have been scrapped.

In the meantime you can use MTD as a tool try and get clients to be as MTD ready as possible over the next few years - thats reasonably consistent with making your life as accountant easier anyway most of the time.

Its reasonably clear the most efficient cheapest reliable packages may not turn up till about the time this becomes mandatory - so i for one dont want to waste any time learning anything MTD if its likely that the final version wil be far removed fromwhere we are now. The recent mtd threads where the process has ben explained evidence fully to me how unfit for purpose and unecessary whole whole show is for anyone not claiming means testted benefits where rightly so there monthly incoem may matter to the powers that be.

In summary ostrich syndrome may work here :)

I totally agree and couldn't put it better

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By bluebaron
20th Oct 2021 14:40

pauld you echo a lot of what I feel, as a one man band, too. I've realized for a long time that MTD would drastically reduce the size of my practice, as I'm not willing to get involved in quarterly updates (that's the worst part of it for me). Ironically, Rebecca was also echoing what I feel personally, about changing career (!)-But, it is shocking that it is coming to this for some of us. My disillusion grows with what HMRC impose on us each passing year, and I just hope that I can run my own practice on a part time basis (centred around limited companies) after 2023.

Whilst I don't want to criticize Rebecca, as I enjoy her webinars and they are informative, in the interests of balance, I do wish I could hear more from speakers who are against MTD, especially as that would reflect my own personal views more.

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Replying to bluebaron:
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By Paul Crowley
20th Oct 2021 15:14

I think Aweb is on the MTD bandwaggon
Awebbers are not

Hence no Aweb live stuff will reflect the thought process of Awebbers
Odd
Media should be balanced

It is the MTD developers that pay Aweb in money
BUT it is the Awebbers who respond on Any Questions that keep the platform content alive and the clicks going.

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By AdamMurphy
20th Oct 2021 15:16

Aweb wants to keep its advertisers on board so will always act in their interest, not ours.

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Replying to AdamMurphy:
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By Paul Crowley
20th Oct 2021 15:20

Be prepared
The naughty step looms for both of us

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By AdamMurphy
20th Oct 2021 20:44

I've been on and off the naughty step since primary school, why stop now!

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Paul Crowley
21st Oct 2021 11:55

Especially now that Tax Dragon has left more space

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By CJaneH
20th Oct 2021 14:58

I object the assumption that most self employed people with low turnover and profits have other income. For many of my clients if they have any other income it is one or more of the following:
State pension
Working Tax Credit
Universal credit
Wife's part time wages

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By GHarr497688
20th Oct 2021 14:59

Rebecca blows hot and cold as she want to keep her job with Aweb and also she would not want to upset the software companies that I suspect fund Aweb in the main. The escape route is really either exemption or joining with a firm more technically up on things. I think it will go ahead and due to non-compliance will fail. Bit like the HIP's did. Pleased to say I doubt I will be around to see Rebecca with egg on her face. This younger ones might well come unstuck sooner rather than later.

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By AdamMurphy
20th Oct 2021 15:20

I’m getting fed up with the sniffy attitude that people who don’t support MTD are Luddites. I’m a child of the 70s so was there as the IT revolution started and love my tech. But not tech just for tech’s sake. A leisure shiny new toy is one thing. When it impacts on work in a negative way is another thing.

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Replying to AdamMurphy:
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By Open all hours
21st Oct 2021 11:45

Exactly

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Replying to AdamMurphy:
Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
21st Oct 2021 12:14

What Adam said.

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By Southwestbeancounter
20th Oct 2021 15:37

Pauld - I couldn't agree with you more.

You echo the thoughts that I have had for some time now, precisely.

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By sarahg
20th Oct 2021 16:09

The webinar I did today after Rebecca was with HMRC who said that the feedback they had was that people loved MTD for VAT now that they are used to it

And that our SA will all have to be registered on our ASA just like we did for VAT, so it should be nice and simple

Firstly -I don't know anybody that thinks MTD is a good thing or that it makes anything easier

And trying to get clients on ASA for VAT was an absolute nightmare, so I really hope it's not just like that

I fear that we will spend so much time doing admin that clients just won't be able to afford the fees

And don't get me started on the new penalty regime, which even the person explaining it clearly didn't understand - but that's OK because clients can always appeal them !

It's like watching a car crash in slow motion

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Replying to sarahg:
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By Hugo Fair
20th Oct 2021 16:14

"It's like watching a car crash in slow motion" ... but where the 'drivers' are working from home (in ivory towers from where the clouds obscure everything) - and all the carnage is restricted to those into whom the cars crash!

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By BIGWAL
20th Oct 2021 18:27

As always, Rebecca's session are really useful, but I find her support for MTD ITSA hugely disappointing,
Whilst very helpful to get an insight into HMRC's supposed logic, it's hard to believe she can genuinely accept the flawed case they make.

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Replying to BIGWAL:
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By Open all hours
21st Oct 2021 11:49

Feels to me that RB loves to tell us about the meetings she’s been to and the contacts she has. Truth is they’ve played her and she is invited back because she says what they want to hear. We have no meaningful representation at that level and it is up to us to get our MPs on board.

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Replying to Open all hours:
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By pauld
21st Oct 2021 12:07

Spot on - I believe RB was talking before the House of Lords yesterday. There is no grass roots representation.

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By legerman
20th Oct 2021 20:04

pauld wrote:

However, I am one man band and many of my clients use spreadsheets and some still keep handwritten records. I am happy and my clients are happy. I do not have the time or inclination to try and train them on software and come MTD and digital records,

Firstly, unless anything drastically changes, spreadsheets will be fine. Bridging software will be available to link with the API.

Written books no longer allowed unless exempt, but that's the same as now with VAT. Either your clients will have to learn to adapt, and if they genuinely can't, then they can apply for exemption.

As Millaree says, I wouldn't be jumping the gun yet. It's well over 2 years away, and the chances are that it will be pushed further back or scrapped altogether.

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By adam.arca
21st Oct 2021 10:19

When MTDfV reared its ugly head, RB volunteered to be the voice of the profession.

Good on her, we all thought, someone who knows what they're talking about to deal with the HMRC pipedreams. She may not be able to stop the juggernaut but at least there might be some common sense administered.

Instead, what we've found is that she's been turned and sent back to us to proselytise amongst the heathen non believers. Now, in all fairness, RB presumably has been converted 100% to MTD and that's fair enough but as the voice of the profession she's been useless.

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By SteveHa
21st Oct 2021 11:50

To be fair to Rebecca, she maintains a small client base, now, and devotes most of her time to advising the profession and HMRC. It's easy to see how, in such a role, you would lose the focus of your clients.

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By Paul Crowley
21st Oct 2021 11:57

Rebecca Cave has yet to be similarly influenced

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
21st Oct 2021 12:26

You are worrying unduly for me. Did the end of the world arrive with MTD for VAT which forced loads of sole traders to quit, no it did not. All the other end of the world events, millenium bug etc were all none events.

It was actually quite a painless experience like all the other end of the world things that have hit the profession. Personally I think the VAT filing now is far better than before.

Ultimately MTD will be delivered late, HMRC side will be poor, but it will 100% happen. So you can either get on the bus and work out how you can deliver it to the clients you have at a cost they can afford or evolve you client base to work for it.

I have been in practice 6 years MTD and IR35 have hung over us all that time so its not like its new. For that reason I did not recruit sole trader clients or loads of freelancers as this was always going to be an issue.

If you were a mechanic you will now have to learn how to fix an electric car which you didn't do 5 years ago things move on, its impossible to go through your career without any changes.

I have been in the game 30 years and the last 18 months have been far harder to deal with than any HMRC changes of legislation. If you can get through the Covid period with all clients and your business intact you can get through anything. I couldn't have supported clients to the level we did if they had spreadsheet records or worse.

If you tolerate clients who keep bad records you are creating your own stress. The software we will use for MTD will not be invented yet, there will be low costs options some of the landlord stuff that is available now is great, inexpensive and easier than a spreadsheet.

As for Rebbecca Bennyworth I don't think she has a huge accounting practice I think its just a few staff so probably not much different to most AWEB users, she just knows what is coming so is planning for it and advising others to do the same.

Am I on board with MTD or against it? Ultimately I don't care if it happens or not, but I will be ready for it. Its what we do.

I earn a great living fixing the problems of people I like working with so will deal with whatever comes my way, its part of the job.

Whilst many are predicting the end for many in the profession this is the biggest compliance exercise since SA was brought in, so there will be a huge amount of work available and you will be needed now more than ever.

Don't see the 12 month delay as a let off, I would keep your clients to the original time scale and get them match fit, there is far better reasons for your clients to keep better books than to meet HMRC compliance requests.

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By Moonbeam
21st Oct 2021 14:32

I love Rebecca's blunt approach. All she did was pass on her views on HMRC's attitude, which none of us can do anything about.
I agree it's no use complaining, just get on with it.
What do you think she should have advised, as a matter of interest?

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Replying to Moonbeam:
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By BIGWAL
21st Oct 2021 17:05

RB's bluntness is no problem. What is concerning is the seemingly uncritical support for HMRC's flawed logic. As adam.arca points out, there’s an impression of being sent to convert the very large majority of accountants who are genuinely concerned about the impracticality of the proposed measures – particularly for those small busiuness clients with income considerably below the £85k threshold who have highly limited IT skills.

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Tornado
By Tornado
25th Oct 2021 13:22

I think we are all now well used to being told that MTD is great and we should put up and shut up, but that sort of attitude seems to mainly come from people who are in denial about the facts or have vested interests in MTD.

The facts are that the vast majority of thousands of posts on AWEB in dozens of threads are not in favour of MTD (as it stands) and many good reasons have been given as to why it will fail and why there are are many other aspects of our tax administration system that need to be significantly improved before trying to rely on a new system that clearly does not work properly from the outset.

Some people need to look outside of the MTD Pleasure Dome and get real.

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Replying to Tornado:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
25th Oct 2021 13:38

In Xanadu did Kublai Khan

A pleasuredome erect
Moving on keep moving on-yeah
Moving at one million miles an hour
Using my power
I sent it by the hour
I have it so I'm mocking it
You really can afford it-yeah
Really can afford it

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Replying to DJKL:
Tornado
By Tornado
25th Oct 2021 13:56

Indeed, once within the Dome it is very difficult to get out, like many other addictions, of course.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Hugo Fair
25th Oct 2021 15:18

I'm more certain of the Samuel Taylor Coleridge version, but I think you've misquoted Frankie in the final 4 lines of your extract - the official lyrics are:

I sell it by the hour
I have it so I market it
You really can't afford it, yeah
Really can't afford it

... or was that poetic licence?

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
Tornado
By Tornado
25th Oct 2021 15:39

The specific referenced to MTD is at the end

And all should cry, Beware! Beware!
His flashing eyes, his floating hair!
Weave a circle round him thrice,
And close your eyes with holy dread,
For he on honey-dew hath fed,
And drunk the milk of Paradise.[4]

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Replying to Tornado:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
25th Oct 2021 15:47

Apparently a great advert for drugs, catch was when Coleridge awoke, having dreamed the poem, he apparently could only remember half of it ( I am no authority on Coleridge but as I studied (and detested) Wordsworth for half a term in Uni second year (Bloody Prelude and Lyrical Ballads) Coleridge was also hovering about)

I preferred his one that I read at school about Scottish Goalkeepers.

It is an ancient Mariner,
And he stoppeth one of three.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Hugo Fair
25th Oct 2021 18:17

I've been fond of it (the poem not opium) since 1967, when in an English Lit lesson (that was meant to be on the Metaphysical poets of the O level syllabus but had somehow strayed onto Kubla Khan) the pupil next to me got up and sauntered towards the door.
Teacher: "Where do you think you're going?"
Pupil X: "I'm off to measure those caverns, man" ... and left teacher with mouth agape.

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
25th Oct 2021 15:40

Mine was mere cut and paste so could well be incorrect.

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/frankiegoestohollywood/welcometotheplesu...

And here is your set- I suspect your set are the correct version.

https://genius.com/Frankie-goes-to-hollywood-welcome-to-the-pleasuredome...

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