Share this content

My accountant is really annoying and not helpful..

sa302 vs tax overview for a mortgage

Didn't find your answer?

Hello

 

nice to meet you all

 

so accountant used his software to send tax to hmrc

 

hmrc recieve it and update it however the sa302 and the tax hmrc do not match

 

the different hmrc said was the class 2 was incorrect

 

i go back to accountant and say you need to amend your sa302 to replicate what hmrc have put on thier website he says system cannot do it but i should edit the sa302 he sent to match the class 2 hmrc has done

 

that way their tax and his sa302 will match

 

is this right

 

he said he would said the same pdf anyway with an amended figure so why not i do it myself?

Replies (34)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By thedovakin187
06th Sep 2021 16:12

he said you are not doing anything wrong because you are correctly editing the sa302 to match what HMRC have told you

Thanks (0)
RLI
By lionofludesch
06th Sep 2021 16:23

Depends on whether the NIC was indeed wrong.

Quite often, HMRC are wrong so don't assume that they've got it right.

Thanks (3)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
06th Sep 2021 16:33

Agree
But lenders agents and lenders staff really do not follow any of this.
If only there was some sort of way they could be taught to understand?

Thanks (0)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
avatar
By thedovakin187
06th Sep 2021 16:35

fully agree now its a cat and mouse game to match tax overview with sa302

and accountant said edit the sa302 yourself match with hmrc as the lenders are quite 'stupid' once they see numbers match they will go ahead

Thanks (0)
Replying to thedovakin187:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
06th Sep 2021 16:50

He is correct
Lender wants the figures to agree
Explanations go over their head

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By thedovakin187
06th Sep 2021 16:34

i think the nic hmrc have worked out is right i worked 8 months so nic class 2 should be pro rated

accountant put 159 which is for the full year

so he said because hmrc are right just amend the sa302 form yourself and get thier tax overview and send it to lender as they want to see it match and you are doing nothing wrong

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Paul Crowley
06th Sep 2021 16:28

This does not make sense
HMRC regularly ammend tax returns
They then send an SA302 to you with the corrected figures on it (in the post), also to the agent if agent is registered with HMRC.

Is the SA 302 the one sent by HMRC to you at your address?
If so it will be correct, because it came from HMRC

Did you get the SA 302 from your Gov Gateway?
(If so the agent used the GG to submit the return) If so the SA 302 will again be correct

The bigger question is which year this is for?
Electronic tax returns can only be amended now for ye 2021 and ye 2020

Thanks (0)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
avatar
By thedovakin187
06th Sep 2021 16:32

hi no sir

the accountant i think used a commerical software to do the self assesment and when i asked him for a sa302 he send me one via pdf to be sent to the mortgage lender

hmrc had the tax bill as 661.19
but the sa302 tax bill showed 820.19

when we rang them they said they need to amend the class 2 nic so they added 108

so the amended tax year overview was 769.19 which is still different to the accountant sa302 form which shows 820.19

different is accountant put class 2 as 159

hmrc said it should have been 108

i cannot get an sa302 form because accountnat never used hmrc but used his own software etc

Thanks (0)
Replying to thedovakin187:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
06th Sep 2021 16:41

The figures are all a bit mixed up
Did you start trading ye 2020?

All decent accountints use paid for software. Keep clear of an agent that uses your government Gateway and HMRC freeware

The £108 is the oddity, being an incomplete tax year.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
avatar
By thedovakin187
06th Sep 2021 16:50

yes sir
i started trading aug 19 tax year ended apr 20

8 months

8/12 x 159 around 106 ~

so they said nic class 2 should be that not 159

accountant keeps saying well thats right so why dont i edit the pdf doc and send it to the lender as the sa302 amended will be that aswell

Thanks (0)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
avatar
By thedovakin187
06th Sep 2021 16:33

this is for year ending 2020

Thanks (0)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
avatar
By thedovakin187
06th Sep 2021 16:36

i cannot get sa302 from hmrc only my accountant sent it me when i go on hmrc if i try getting one it says because they did not use GG you need to contact them blah blah etc

Thanks (0)
Replying to thedovakin187:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
06th Sep 2021 16:46

That is normal
But HMRC would have sent you an SA 302 when they ammended the tax return. Or at least they have done on all my clients.
If you chose paper free when signing up for GG then you may have been sent an email saying check your GG instead of the paper version

Thanks (0)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
avatar
By thedovakin187
06th Sep 2021 16:47

ah they just amended the tax overview two days ago i think maybe they will send via post

Thanks (0)
Replying to thedovakin187:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
06th Sep 2021 16:52

Expect to wait at least a week
Agent will also be sent a paper copy

Thanks (0)
avatar
By The Dullard
06th Sep 2021 17:12

All accountants are annoying and unhelpful. It's part of the training.

Thanks (7)
Replying to The Dullard:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
06th Sep 2021 17:20

The odd one or two are poorly trained and may end up offering helpful advice by mistake.

Thanks (5)
My photo
By Matrix
06th Sep 2021 17:37

Just get the accountant to submit an amended return with the revised class 2 and send you the tax calculation which will then agree to the Tax Overview (302).

Thanks (0)
Replying to Matrix:
By Paul D Utherone
07th Sep 2021 08:53

Matrix wrote:

Just get the accountant to submit an amended return with the revised class 2 and send you the tax calculation which will then agree to the Tax Overview (302).


or even just amend his software to agree HMRC figures, if you agree those. No need to resubmit as HMRC has already made the change. Sounds like a 2 minute job (if that) to me.

If the SA302 for the lender is urgent, then that would be the quickest way without waiting to get the amended computation from HMRC

Thanks (1)
avatar
By Laurence52
06th Sep 2021 18:04

Box 6 on the self employment (full) section (box 5 if self employment (short) section used) should be completed to show date in August 2019 self employment started on the return to 5 April 2020.
Tax software should pick that up and calculate correct number of weeks of class 2.
If that was left blank, 53 weeks would be calculated instead (53 x £3 = £159).
As HMRC computers have a record as to when self employment started they would override the £159 with the correct number of weeks (36 x £3 = £108).

Thanks (0)
avatar
By gillybean04
06th Sep 2021 18:13

I wouldn't be surprised if the amendment fails. You can't include voluntary class 2 in self assessment after 31st January.

Explains this in SEFN 16 and SAM124035.

Thanks (0)
Replying to gillybean04:
avatar
By rmillaree
07th Sep 2021 09:18

gillybean04
I don't think there is any evidence here that the class2NI is voluntary (unless i have missed it) the fact £108 shows up that matches the expected trading period length suggests that the NI has been included by hmrc in their original calc - this again suggests the clas2NI is not voluntary - as i would have expected hmrc to process with nil class2NI if it was too late for the voluntary claim.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By SXGuy
06th Sep 2021 19:11

Accountant being unhelpful.

Personally I'd lose clients acting like that.

All they need do is amend their software and print a new Sa302.

As others have said, lender just wants figures to match, no one really cares whether the class 2 is right or wrong.

Thanks (0)
Replying to SXGuy:
avatar
By Tax Dragon
07th Sep 2021 07:49

Your fee is probably more than £99. Hire a budget accountant, get a budget accountancy service.

Thanks (1)
By K81
07th Sep 2021 08:28

if HMRC amended the tax return to change the national insurance then you should have been sent an amended SA302 at that point by them.

Thanks (0)
By Paul D Utherone
07th Sep 2021 08:55

If HMRC amended the return, and you and the accountant agree the amendment, and you need the SA302 now rather than wait for the amended computation (SA302) from HMRC, then your accountant should be able to update his software to agree to the HMRC figures and reprint the SA302 that will agree with the HMRC Tax Year Overview

Thanks (0)
Avatar
By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
07th Sep 2021 09:06

I've had a client's 2019/20 Class 2 NI figure altered by the Revenue - I can see from his bank statements that the client stopped paying NI directly by standing order prior to 2019/20, but HMRC evidently think otherwise. They believe he paid Class 2 NI directly for the complete year, so they amended our figures accordingly. And erroneously.

Thanks (0)
Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
By Paul D Utherone
07th Sep 2021 10:46

Are they excepted from contributions? Sounds like they still think Class 2 is due, and to be paid through the tax return (as has been the case generally for years)

Thanks (0)
Replying to Paul D Utherone:
Avatar
By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
07th Sep 2021 20:44

Ahha, no quite the opposite. Client ceased paying Class 2 by direct debit / standing order (whichever). So we included it in the 2019/20 tax comps.

Revenue thought they knew better. I guess it's possible there might have been some carry over credit of "stamps". Perhaps some earlier year double-paid. But if that's the case, it's not easily visible / apparent.

A bad case of meddling, I'd say. The temptation is to let it go, on account of it'd be a case of turkeys voting for Christmas were I to contest the matter. Although deep down I cannot help but feel that in the long run the client will miss out on a year's pension / social security etc NI contributions. Profits £30K plus, so nowhere near the exemption threshold.

Thanks (0)
Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
avatar
By rmillaree
07th Sep 2021 21:41

"I guess it's possible there might have been some carry over credit of "stamps". Perhaps some earlier year double-paid. But if that's the case, it's not easily visible / apparent."
From memory if client needs to claim benefits they sometimes have to pay classNI in advance of submission off tax return - not sure how this comes out in the wash or if it doesnt - not but perhaps that could be the case here.
Also they could potentially qualify for stamp via other routes eg claiming ESA or similar enitlements to stamp credit in which case the stamp can vanish from the tax calc as its deemed not necessary

As you say not exactly transparent in any manner albeit class2NI team could possibly have the answer if you are lucky and could be bothered to ring them.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By AdamMurphy
07th Sep 2021 10:46

I get what this topic is about, and I would amend the calculation on my software if my client, but really the heading should be my MORTGAGE BROKER/LENDER is really annoying and not helpful from experience.

Thanks (3)
ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
07th Sep 2021 11:19

OP - how much did you pay your accountant to do your tax return?

Your answer may be there.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By JD
07th Sep 2021 19:57

Looking forward to the next episode, when the broker and lender wastes everbodies time with an accountants certificate.

Thanks (0)
Replying to JD:
avatar
By rmillaree
07th Sep 2021 21:35

Rumour has it that there are student loan deductions here and the next saga will be the 21p rounding discrepancy (i think btc have finally removed that issue for 2021 woop)

Thanks (0)
Share this content