Here is a link to today's NEW guidance re the Job Retention Scheme (substantially expanded) - IMHO essential reading.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus...
[Thanks to John Stodyk for drawing attention to this guidance in a separate thread re overtime pay]
Basil.
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WTF, e’ers have to set up PAYE Online.
Does this mean that Accountants can’t make the claim unless they a) make sure all clients have an account and b) log into the clients account to make the claim?
What are people’s views on making claims now?
that sounds like a massive admin job but compare to the even bigger admin job of trying to get clients to do it themselves
that sounds like a massive admin job but compare to the even bigger admin job of trying to get clients to do it themselves
I didn’t want to, but we’re going to have to charge for this now, just something nominal like £30-£50 per client. I was hoping that it would be something that we had easy access to ourselves and could rattle them off.
WTF, e’ers have to set up PAYE Online.
Does this mean that Accountants can’t make the claim unless they a) make sure all clients have an account and b) log into the clients account to make the claim?
What are people’s views on making claims now?
Which bit says that you have to set up paye online
One way or another I am 100% sure that we will be doing this for clients, how easy that will be remains to be seen
does anyone know whether you need to keep employers liability insurance in place if you have furloughed all employees? I'm thinking it'll be yes but wanted to see what you guys think?
does anyone know whether you need to keep employers liability insurance in place if you have furloughed all employees? I'm thinking it'll be yes but wanted to see what you guys think?
I’d go with yes - they’re still employed.
Am I right in concluding based on the below for Company Directors
"they may do so provided they do no more than would reasonably be judged necessary for that purpose, for instance, they should not do work of a kind they would carry out in normal circumstances to generate commercial revenue or provides services to or on behalf of their company."
PAYE -> In normal circumstances, a director pays themself to generete commercial revenue for the company
And therefore not eligible for JRS
Am I right in concluding based on the below for Company Directors
"they may do so provided they do no more than would reasonably be judged necessary for that purpose, for instance, they should not do work of a kind they would carry out in normal circumstances to generate commercial revenue or provides services to or on behalf of their company."
PAYE -> In normal circumstances, a director pays themself to generete commercial revenue for the company
And therefore not eligible for JRS
There are folk on here who are absolutely resolute in their determination to deny their clients the assistance offered by the Government.
Im guessing you disagree with me.
Personally I would rather give the right advise rather than what they would like to hear.
Im guessing you disagree with me.
Personally I would rather give the right advise rather than what they would like to hear.
How is running the payroll not a statutory duty? In any sense whatsoever?
insolventnl wrote:
Im guessing you disagree with me.
Personally I would rather give the right advise rather than what they would like to hear.
How is running the payroll not a statutory duty? In any sense whatsoever?
I am not saying I am right
Also I dont know - I tried looking for the statutory guideines and could not find it saying that running payroll is one of them
The way I look at it is, if you set up a new company and do nothing with it. So no trade, then you still have to file accounts, AR as per the statutory duties.
Which kind of means anyhting else arises as a result of your trading. Hence payroll also. Add to that the fact you pay yourself or staff because they egnerate revenue for the company (well majority do for that reason) it makes it more complicated.
I would be gratefu if you can show me where it states specificaly that running payroll is a statutory duty.
lionofludesch wrote:
insolventnl wrote:
Im guessing you disagree with me.
Personally I would rather give the right advise rather than what they would like to hear.
How is running the payroll not a statutory duty? In any sense whatsoever?
I am not saying I am right
Also I dont know - I tried looking for the statutory guideines and could not find it saying that running payroll is one of them
The way I look at it is, if you set up a new company and do nothing with it. So no trade, then you still have to file accounts, AR as per the statutory duties.
Which kind of means anyhting else arises as a result of your trading. Hence payroll also. Add to that the fact you pay yourself or staff because they egnerate revenue for the company (well majority do for that reason) it makes it more complicated.
I would be gratefu if you can show me where it states specificaly that running payroll is a statutory duty.
How are your staff generating revenue when they're on furlough?
Look at the Companies Act 2006 s172 and the PAYE regs. If you're still not happy you must of course go with your minority view.
How is running the payroll a statutory duty for the purposes of the JRS?
1) "Statutory duty" is defined in the revised guidance by reference to the duties imposed by the CA, not by Statutes in general, eg The PAYE Regulations.
2) The phrase is further defined as "statutory obligations [directors] owe to their company". The obligation to operate a PAYE scheme is imposed by the law on the employer (ie the company) and not on the directors personally and furthermore is owed to the state and not to the company.
3) if 'running' the payroll was a statutory duty of directors then that would make every wages clerk and every payroll bureau a shadow director.
4) If in normal times the director runs the payroll then they can't do so when furloughed nor can the director start to do so because the wages clerk has been furloughed or made redundant or the bureau sacked to save money.) Running the payroll (and paying staff) is providing a service to the company and providing services to the employer is explicitly banned, save for the carve-out for SDs imposed by the CA (ie not by other acts) on directors (ie not on the company) to their company (ie not to the state) .
It is important not to confuse responsibility with duty.
I suspect that the government has in mind that it is OK for a furloughed director to attend board meetings, to approve the accounts and any tax returns and forms at Companies House that may need filing and so on. In short he or she must become a non-executive director.
3) if 'running' the payroll was a statutory duty of directors then that would make every wages clerk and every payroll bureau a shadow director.
Bit of a stretch there. A director may delegate a duty but, ultimately, the director is still responsible for seeing that it's done. Telling a wages clerk to file RTI doesn't, in my view, make him a shadow director.
We've had the issue of statutory duties for years. It's not new. It's exactly the same principle as SMP. If you work on maternity leave, there's no SMP (KIT days apart).
I think you'll be hard pushed to find someone who's been told at a PAYE visit that they shouldn't have claimed SMP because they had the temerity to pay it.
But - there's only so many ways I can say the same thing over and over again. I've not changed my view since day 1 and HMRC seem to be making it ever clearer that directors can claim. You must do what your conscience tells you.
PAYE -> In normal circumstances, a director pays themself to generete commercial revenue for the company
And therefore not eligible for JRS
Sorry - how does that not make them eligible for JRS? They’re not generating income, which is why they normally get paid.
Ah yes - this could be right. If they stopped paying themself for the three months as there is no income so no salary then I think they are in effect not even running the payroll and hence not doing anything (ie meet full conditions of being furoughed).
Ah yes - this could be right. If they stopped paying themself for the three months as there is no income so no salary then I think they are in effect not even running the payroll and hence not doing anything (ie meet full conditions of being furoughed).
Right answer. Wrong reason. There's still a payroll, still RTI subnissions, the income still counts as taxable income.
You only applied for a practising certificate at the end of 2019 and people are paying you for “advise” and closing down their businesses already per the other thread where I am still waiting for you to respond? Sure.
You are absolutely right, thank you for highlighting.
However I did reply to you re my question as you chased me for that in another thread also. Am guessing when you were investigating into me, that might have been an oversight?
Yes I did see it but I don’t see why you can’t just close the loop on the original thread and confirm the dissolution is a liquidation.
The one bit of change I was waiting for is still there- "must have had a payroll on 28th February" bit!!
Has anyone worked out yet what an ‘ePAYE’ reference is?!
To my mind it's the employers ref no.
atleastisoundknowledgable... wrote:
Has anyone worked out yet what an ‘ePAYE’ reference is?!
To my mind it's the employers ref no.
So not some new fangled reference we have to apply for from somewhere?