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new reason for paying accounts bill

new reason for paying accounts bill

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Had a new client in recently CIS sub contractor, brought the paperwork in (as little as there was) , gave his details , provided ID, agreed a fee and off he went. The Tax Return was prepared and emailed to him with explanations of relevant points and a request for it to be returned signed for us to file with HMRC, he was subsequently billed as agreed. Our credit controller received an email saying that his friends mum had prepared a tax return for him and as he hadnt signed the one that we sent to him he shouldnt have to pay for it.

A new one on me, any thoughts

Replies (19)

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By paul.benny
25th Sep 2019 16:46

What does it say in your a letter of engagement?

Ah. There's your problem

Thanks (1)
Replying to paul.benny:
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By Mr_awol
26th Sep 2019 09:17

paul.benny wrote:

What does it say in your a letter of engagement?

Ah. There's your problem

In my experience subbies don't give a shit[***][***] what the letter of engagement says. They either pay up or dig in.

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Replying to Mr_awol:
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By paul.benny
26th Sep 2019 09:43

I don't disagree. But if you have a written agreement, wriggle room is reduced, especially if you have to go legal.

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By CW2012
25th Sep 2019 16:58

Yes that old nugget the engagement letter, still I think the bill still stands, the work was done post meeting, I just see it as pure cheek, it seems to me that clients are becoming more unethical as time goes on. I regularly hear staff saying how rude this or that client is and then low and behold the same ones haven't paid there bill or have cancelled their direct debit. Is it me or has the client base become less tolerable.

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Replying to CW2012:
By Glenn Martin
25th Sep 2019 17:04

CIS lads are as cute as they come.

Warning Signs.

1. Asks straight away if the refund comes to you or him, if its to you phone goes
dead.
2. Ask if they can pay when refund comes through, by which time they will be in
Benidorm p*ssing the refund up against the wall.
3. Asks for all his petrol invoices back so everyone in the van can claim them on
their returns.
4. His mate got more back them him with same income so you must be a [***]
accountant and can you add some expenses to get the refund up.

I could go on all day.

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Replying to Glennzy:
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By SouthCoastAcc
26th Sep 2019 10:06

I wish I could say this was untrue.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Sep 2019 17:07

Just pass it to the debt collecting folk.

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By Adam12345
25th Sep 2019 17:18

Bill still stands. He accepted your contract by his actions. The letter or engagement is irrelevant regarding a contract, it is just to keep your professional body happy.

Ask him if his client's don't pay if they don't sign a contract.

Get the ball rolling on 'money claim online'. Normally this will force their hand before it even gets any further.

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Replying to Adam12345:
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By atleastisoundknowledgable...
25th Sep 2019 17:39

I can recommend MCOL, works every time :)

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By SXGuy
26th Sep 2019 08:57

His friends mum who prepared the tax return, probably just copied your figures from the return you sent him to sign I bet!.

For work like this, im afraid, if someone agrees my terms, then the bill is paid upfront before work commences. I only ever work on credit with people I already know and trust.

Next time, once he has agreed for you to carry out the work, take payment first.

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By SouthCoastAcc
26th Sep 2019 09:26

I've had this before, copied and submitted themselves.

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By Mr_awol
26th Sep 2019 09:16

Strangely ive had the opposite a few times.

Subbie etc comes in, agrees a fee, gets TR then ive received a letter with cheque paying my fees but advising me that they have made other arrangements to submit their TR. Look on HMRC website a few weeks later and their £1200 refund is suddenly £8k. Whomever submitted the Return hasn't contacted me ref prof clearance and clearly hasn't sent in a 64-8.

In your case, though, just tell them work was done as agreed and is still payable. They will or wont pay, at which you choose whether to take it further or not. If it's nominal (£300 or so) it might be more hassle than its worth although we tend to as the chasing etc is done by admin staff.

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By CW2012
26th Sep 2019 09:41

To Mr Awol, I had a potential subbie in recently who'd had a £6k refund from the HMRC and been subsequently investigated, when I started digging into who'd prepared the tax return it all went quiet and I never saw him again. There was locally a person going around local building sites telling the subbies that he'd been on a special course and could get them large refunds, we lost a few to this charlatan who has now disappeared. Arrrh the frustration

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By Moonbeam
26th Sep 2019 09:43

Why did you give this person credit? Tesco's wouldn't. He clearly doesn't rate you any higher than them.
Remembering the days when people used to owe me money, I suggest you send a 7 day letter now, referring to the summons fee and explaining the negative effect on his credit rating when you get the judgment. Many people pay up at this point. If no payment in 14 days from the letter going out apply online to small claims court. Then bailiffs after judgment.
But in future, just tell everyone in this particular category that they need to pay you upfront. And if they won't then move on to more profitable prospects.

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By bernard michael
26th Sep 2019 10:16

I assume you're shown on the HMRC web site registered as his agent . Has he actually filed the return and does it show a CIS refund that is the same as the one you calculated or more ?
If it's more you have a furtheredisclosure dilemma

As for the bill I agree MCOL are good

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By meadowsaw227
26th Sep 2019 11:00

My tax returns are only ever signed face to face .

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Replying to meadowsaw227:
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By bernard michael
26th Sep 2019 11:14

meadowsaw227 wrote:

My tax returns are only ever signed face to face .


Would be nice to be able to do that. but as I have clients all over the country I have to rely on post/e-mail
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Replying to meadowsaw227:
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By Bob Loblaw
26th Sep 2019 12:13

Just out of general interest, how do you manage that? Do you only accept local clients?

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By Bob Loblaw
26th Sep 2019 12:12

Ahh, the CIS lot. First one at the door after 5 April, last ones to settle a bill if you leave it in their hands. What's that? Your mate Dave from down the site was paid the exact same as you, did the exact amount of miles, but his refund was £17.50 higher? You found a ball of water damaged receipts in an old welly that you want put through? You don't see why you can't claim your weekly Asda shop as subsistence and the trip you took to Alton Towers was work related?

As mentioned, chase him for payment but fully expect to get nowhere with it. Some people genuinely aren't bothered by threats against their credit ratings, etc. It's luckily not an issue I deal with anymore, but I would not accept work from a sub-contractor without payment upfront or an agreement that any repayment is made into my client account. Although given HMRC's propensity to ignore the bank details on tax returns, the latter may be easier said than done.

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