NHS staff exchanging leave for pay?

I didn't think this was allowed

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It was reported over the weekend that to make ends meet some NHS staff had exchanged leave for pay. gov.uk guidance suggests this is not allowed ....
"The only time someone can get paid in place of taking statutory leave (known as ‘payment in lieu’) is when they leave their job. Employers must pay for untaken statutory leave, even if the worker is dismissed for gross misconduct.

If an employer offers more than 5.6 weeks’ annual leave, they can agree separate arrangements for the extra leave."

... unless NHS annual leave is more than the statutory minimum, but even if so the employee can only "sell" the excess?

 

 

Replies (12)

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By Peter Anderson
25th Jul 2022 10:33

My brother works for NHS, he gets more than statutory minimum leave, it increases further with his length of service.

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By mrme89
25th Jul 2022 11:23

As per the other comment, NHS staff receive a holiday entitlement above the statutory minimum.

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A Putey FACA
By Arthur Putey
25th Jul 2022 12:52

So its a non-story if they can only sell what they get over the statutory 5.6 weeks?

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Replying to Arthur Putey:
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By Bobbo
25th Jul 2022 13:57

Would call it a non-story if the reason for the selling back holiday was to save up for something like home improvements or a holiday.

But having to sell back holiday to make ends meet is pretty bleak.

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Replying to Bobbo:
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By Hugo Fair
25th Jul 2022 14:52

The real stupidity is that the statutory amount is a (fairly arbitrary) quantity of leave that if not taken as leave is deemed to be injurious to your health.

But, leaving aside the obvious facts that people differ as do the stresses of different jobs, if a person needs more holiday (aka a 'break') than the amount to which they are contractually entitled then we all know what happens ... they go sick (sometimes in protest but often because their health is truly suffering).

So the real story is why the interviewed NHS staff feel the need to sell holiday (and not go sick) ... presumably because of their commitment to the service.

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By Mr_awol
25th Jul 2022 13:02

Yes it's a bit of a non-story, although to be fair they are still selling holiday entitlement, which you'd assume they'd only do if they need the money. If you view the standard (i.e. in excess of statutory) entitlement as the necessary amount to ensure they are sufficiently rested, it's bad. If it's just a perk, and they are cashing it in because they don't want to have that much time off, then it's arguably a good thing that they are allowed to tailor their own remuneration package in this way.

We allow people to cash holiday in, so long as they don't fall below statutory of course. Very few do it, but it was quite popular during the main Covid year when:
1) People couldn't really go away on holiday anyway
2) They were WFH and spent more time with family, plus they had more flexibility to work up extra hours, take time off, etc
3) There had been more work for us, so given 1 and 2 we didn't make them take it just for the sake of it.
3) It suited us to pay it out too, to get the entitlements off the books rather than carrying them all forward to the following year and finding that everyone had an extra week to have off!

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By accountaholic
25th Jul 2022 13:06

Isn't this sort of thing becoming more common, and touted as a good thing:
Employees can "sell" some holiday entitlement (provided they don't go below 5.6 weeks) if they value the money more than the time off.
And other employees can "buy" additional time off if they value the holidays more.

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Replying to accountaholic:
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By Hugo Fair
25th Jul 2022 14:44

Well, yes and no.

The fashion for it has been cyclical (every 10 years or so) for no obvious reason other than (a) it sounds attractive; but (b) it can be a pain to manage (without an expensive self-service benefits system for employees that has to route requests for approvals by that organisation's authorisers).

The amount of 'excess' (over statutory) is outside all the rules that most people associate with Leave ... so, for instance, it can be carried forward into the next year (subject of course to the Employment T&Cs in that organisation).

Really it should have a different name so that employees don't trip over all the differences (such as the amount of minimum notice needed to make a request and the degree to which one can/cannot appeal if the request is rejected).

And back to OP ... because we're talking about non-statutory leave there are no statutory rules that automatically govern other aspects such as rate of pay (so back to the T&Cs for anyone with variable rates of pay and/or overtime etc).

Which leads to the joy that is 'what units' are allowed to be bought or sold? Most employers view it in terms of days (or sometimes half-days), but most employees want it to be in hours (or even half-hours)! Whilst the latter makes sense for those on variable hours, it's also attractive for those who simply want 2.5 hours for a meeting with their solicitor or whatever.

And then you move on to flexi-time and other systems ... (but not here today)!

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By accountaholic
26th Jul 2022 13:46

Agreed, that's one for the accountants' pub quiz - how do you work out the value of holidays bought or sold for a part-time, flexible, or zero hours worker, with varying overtime patterns, and with a change in working hours and hourly pay rate within the same holiday year?

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Replying to accountaholic:
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By paulhammett
26th Jul 2022 16:34

Accountants' Pub Quiz - I bet that's a barrel of laughs.

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Replying to paulhammett:
A Putey FACA
By Arthur Putey
26th Jul 2022 18:02

Somebody must have done one?

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Replying to accountaholic:
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By Leywood
26th Jul 2022 18:57

Can you put that down as CPD?

I dont mean continually p... drunk! Although that sounds like a better option than your fun nights out ;-P

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