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Only 9 people are in the MTD pilot

Only 9 people are in the MTDIT pilot

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According to Steve Wade's linked in profile:  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevewadetax

See the first post in his Activity.  I don't have a linkedin account, so others may be able to see more.

 

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RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Jan 2022 17:18

No doubt all nine are tech savvy and have been keeping records on a computer for donkeys' years.

No doubt the outcome will be that it's all grand and will be a major success.

How different it might be had we got a few less straightforward cases in there. Like a brickie on DRC, somebody on Flat Rate, somebody partly exempt for VAT, hire purchase deals, etc etc.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
24th Jan 2022 17:58

My guess is they are all developers. No-one else is going to bother.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
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By johnhemming
25th Jan 2022 10:20

ireallyshouldknowthisbut wrote:

My guess is they are all developers. No-one else is going to bother.


They are not all developers. I know that for certain as I know that at least one of them is not. It has been, however, quite difficult to find someone whose income enables joining the pilot. I, for example, have been too complicated, but hopefully that will change soon.
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Replying to johnhemming:
ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
25th Jan 2022 12:39

[quote=johnhemming]

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Replying to johnhemming:
RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Jan 2022 12:46

johnhemming wrote:

ireallyshouldknowthisbut wrote:

My guess is they are all developers. No-one else is going to bother.

They are not all developers. I know that for certain as I know that at least one of them is not. It has been, however, quite difficult to find someone whose income enables joining the pilot. I, for example, have been too complicated, but hopefully that will change soon.

Does that mean you'll be less complicated, John, or that the system will become more comprehensive ?

On a more serious note, how can this be considered any sort of rigorous trial if boatloads of people are excluded because their affairs are too complex ?

Bless me!

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Replying to johnhemming:
Tornado
By Tornado
25th Jan 2022 17:31

Your answer, John, seems to imply that there are 8 Developers and one that is not.

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Replying to Tornado:
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By johnhemming
26th Jan 2022 09:55

My answer is that I know one that isn't.

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By SXGuy
24th Jan 2022 17:29

It's a bit like those hair adverts. "98% agree" then the small print "surveyed 100 people"

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RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Jan 2022 17:34

It's not just numbers.

They're surveying the wrong people.

How do I know they're the wrong people ? Because they volunteered.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By David Ex
24th Jan 2022 18:02

lionofludesch wrote:

It's not just numbers.

They're surveying the wrong people.

How do I know they're the wrong people ? Because they volunteered.

Exactly, why the heck would you??

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Replying to lionofludesch:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
24th Jan 2022 21:28

Correct-selection bias, it's like auditing the year end debtors by sampling accounts chosen on the basis of receipts post year end.

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Replying to DJKL:
ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
25th Jan 2022 09:32

DJKL wrote:

Correct-selection bias, it's like auditing the year end debtors by sampling accounts chosen on the basis of receipts post year end.

Wait - is that not how you do it?

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
24th Jan 2022 17:56

Wow. That pretty much demolishes and argument the system is in any way ready.

Any sensible pilot would see (say) 5,000 users **paid*** for their participation as Beta testers stratified properly over all the different types of businesses to work out the problems.......feed them back..........fixed 'em before the public is forced onto it.

This of course is not a sensible pilot so it will be any old toss and call it "agile" which is short hand for "doesnt work, & we dont care about our users"

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By Calculatorboy
24th Jan 2022 19:56

9 too many

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By GHarr497688
24th Jan 2022 20:18

I am getting fed up with reading about this stupid idea. Just today HMRC stated 4million SA needed filing after a year of time to file and now they say 9 people are trying a new system to be introduced in 2 years with up to 6 filings a year , keeping digital records that HMRC haven't even told them about. Are these people at HMRC able to read and listen let alone take action. I won't tell one client about MTD - reason a new Tax System needs a nationwide campaign and capability of use by unrepresented tax payers.

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Replying to GHarr497688:
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By SXGuy
24th Jan 2022 22:39

Someone get Martin Lewis on the case *chuckle*

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By JD
25th Jan 2022 10:24

Even better than that, Nigel Farage, now of GB News

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By SXGuy
25th Jan 2022 10:26

Yes i see that!

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By bernard michael
25th Jan 2022 09:26

As many as that I'm surprised

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By Tax Dragon
25th Jan 2022 10:05

Is that a quorum?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Hugo Fair
25th Jan 2022 14:15

Who knows ... but it is a quantum.
In physics, a quantum is the minimum amount of any physical entity (physical property) involved in an interaction ... so seems apt?

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Tornado
By Tornado
25th Jan 2022 17:25

I wonder if the 4 million people yet to file their Tax Returns are the same 4 million people who will be expected to file 5 Returns a year.

All I can say to HMRC is Good Luck. It is your responsibility to make MTD work, not ours , so I am waiting with great excitement and anticipation to see exactly how you are going to do this.

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Replying to Tornado:
RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Jan 2022 17:40

Tornado wrote:

All I can say to HMRC is Good Luck. It is your responsibility to make MTD work, not ours .....

It's not HMRC's responsibility. It's the taxpayer's.

Just typical of how Governments abrogate their obligations. It's not a party political thing. They all do it.

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By Michael Beaver
25th Jan 2022 17:25

How many exceptions do we get each year on the income tax calculations each year? Last year I think it was a couple dozen? This on a process that has been bedded in for decades.

That shows that change just one thing and there will always be extreme use cases that break the system.

If they are testing on the simplest data set possible, how are are they going to find and allow for every use case that only real world data can provide?

Ridiculous.

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By Hugo Fair
25th Jan 2022 20:22

And the reason given by HMRC?
That they've tightened the criteria limiting participation to very simple businesses with either property or sole trader income in 2019/20 - and then excluded those who had received Covid support grants (as too complex for the pilot)!

So the same HMRC which, over the last 5 years, has been getting slower & later in releasing technical information required by software developers (because they've no concept of the specification/development/testing/documentation cycle) ... is now finding, when things like SEISS jump out of the woodwork, that they can't cope with it.

And this is 'things' that they knew more about than commercial developers or agents or taxpayers - who are all expected to turn on a sixpence and move on.

The aspect of MTD that seems to have escaped the Treasury planners is that it is built not so much on digitalisation but on integration (which is the old-fashioned word for APIs).
So, irrespective of what software developers achieve OR of what data is entered by taxpayers OR what agents manage to correct/adjust in those figures ... the whole system grinds to a halt if the HMRC components don't work.

And unlike one-way 'integration' such as RTI, where c0ckups at HMRC's end can be hidden (or even denied), in the two-way world of APIs there's nowhere to hide!

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By C.Y.Nical
30th Jan 2022 15:47

I thought that perhaps I might volunteer for the pilot. My retired wife and I (just) exceed the minimum property income threshold. But it seems I have to buy commercial software before I can volunteer. Is that right? I'm not willing to do that.

Quote: 'Those who wish to sign up for the pilot scheme currently have to do so via a government-approved software provider. There are currently seven products available now, with a further five listed in development. A full list can be found here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-software-thats-compatible-with-making-t...

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Replying to C.Y.Nical:
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By Hugo Fair
30th Jan 2022 18:00

Well two of the seven listed do say "Free version available".

Can't say that I can be bothered to drill down to each supplier to find out more (including the criteria/restrictions for the software to be free). Especially since these (and those listed as in development) are obviously not the 'main' suppliers on whom the mass market will rely if or when MTD finally gets going - so pointless.

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