Share this content

P11D Penalties

P11D Penalties

Didn't find your answer?

If no benefits and expenses are paid that would be entered on P11D sections A to M, but expenses are paid or reimbursed that would be entered on P11D section N, my understanding is that if no dispensation is in place then a P11D will need to be completed and filed by 6 July along with P11D(B), although no class 1a nic will be due. If however, a dispensation is in place then there would be no requirement to file forms P11D & P11D(B) as the benefit is fully matched by a tax deductible expense.

Am I correct in assuming that no penalties can arise from not filing a P11D and P11D(B) if only reimbursed expenses are paid that create no class 1a nic liability, even though the forms technically should still have been filed as no dispensation was in place? Can the £100 per month or part month late filing penalty still be imposed? Also can HMRC penalise the personal tax return for being inaccurate although no tax revenue has been lost?

Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

John

Replies (3)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By zebaa
08th Sep 2010 20:45

Good question

I have never heard of HMRC issuing a penalty for no P11D etc where there is no BIK. This question came up the other day and I invited others to tell me I'm wrong. As yet no takers. I suspect they may be a little busy dealing with the current mess and have better things to do than to bother with zero tax due forms, but I could be wrong. 

Thanks (0)
avatar
By thehaggis
08th Sep 2010 21:09

Yes and No

 The form P11D carries no duty charge on the employer, therefore the amount of Class1A is irrelevant.  The penalty is under s98(1) TMA for failing to make a return.  The penalty (initially £300 per return) has to be imposed by the First Tier Tribunal and cannot be imposed after the failure has been rectified.  It is unlikely to get to that stage because you will have rectified it before a penalty is imposed.

Form P11D(B) is different because it carries a liability to pay a duty - Class 1A NIC.  As this is a NIC duty the provisions are at Reg 81 Social Security (Contributions) Regs 2001. The penalty is £100 per 50 P11Ds that ought to have been submitted for each month that it is late.  These can be imposed by HMRC and their computer system is geared to issue them automatically, the same way that late tax returns attract an automatic penalty.  However, just like tax returns, the amount of the penalty cannot exceed the duties ultimately due (Reg 81(5)).

So, whilst any late P11D(B) penalty will be capped at zero, there remains the possibility of a P11D penalty.

A dispensation exempts the reimbursed expenses from tax, therefore they need not be reported.  They must (or should) be reported if there is no dispensation in place.

For personal returns, the penalties are tax geared therefore if there is no tax effect the penalty will be zero

Thanks (1)
Replying to Euan MacLennan:
avatar
By Albie
29th Nov 2012 15:24

Interesting - so do I understand this correctly?

Interesting.

thehaggis, can I confirm that your answer boil down to;

Submit the Nil P11D & P11Db

The late P11D will not result in a penalty as it has been submitted before the First Tier Tribunal has imposed a penalty.

The late P11Db will generate a penalty - but under the Soc Soc regs unlike the tax legislation the penalty for late filing cannot exceed the class 1A due?

Have I got this right.

 

Thanks (0)
Share this content