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Part-Time Football Players

Part-Time Football Players

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Just a quick Question.

Does anyone do part-time football players self-assessment returns.

Reason I ask is because I play sunday football and a few of my team mates play on a saturday and are getting paid cash in hand (one is on over £400 a game).

Most are on PAYE so don't do a tax return and definitely don't declare the football income.

My mind boggles with how these players and football clubs get away without paying tax as I have heard that the club they all play for put down that the money paid out to players is for expenses, although they go to away games on a coach.

It appears to be happening at every football club around the part-time level and i'm just surprised HMRC haven't cracked down on it.

Replies (19)

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By Craigie_Bhoy
09th Jun 2014 17:32

£400 a game!!!

£400 a game!!!

I'm pretty handy and still in my (cough) early thirties - dont suppose they need a cultured, ball playing centre half?

I'm a snip at £200 a game.

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Replying to johnhemming:
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By Pelican
09th Jun 2014 19:38

Ex Pro and could still be a pro but when he earns a wage working 5 days a week and £400 cash in hand at weekends it is a no brainer as he brings in more money than being a pro

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RLI
By lionofludesch
09th Jun 2014 17:43

Rugby League Players

I deal with a few Rugby League players.  They get taxed under PAYE.

There was a big purge on rugby clubs in the early 1990s.  Indeed, Rugby Union "turning" professional in 1995 was largely down to the Inland Revenue discovering that it had actually been professional for some time...........

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By andrewdiver
11th Jun 2014 11:57

howzat

They clamped down on this sort of area in cricket clubs recently.   I guess it is only a matter of time until they look at other sports.  Probably heightened by your post which will be swallowed up by the Connect super computer and spit out a taskforce in this area. 

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By Pelican
11th Jun 2014 12:07

That wouldn't be a bad thing because

 

1. I don't play saturday's so it doesn't affect me.

2. They'll all probably come to me to do their tax returns.

 

 

 

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By hiu612
11th Jun 2014 12:17

Crack down

The cricket club crack down referred to above is extending to football clubs too. I've seen a couple of local clubs who've been on the receiving end of PAYE compliance visits, with scrutiny over what is in expenses, and focus on employment status of stewards / physios etc.

 

And these are clubs where some players are PAYE.

 

Eventually either the player or club will get tumbled. And at £400 per game in cash, it could bring the club down.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
11th Jun 2014 12:23

Baffling

I can never understand why someone would pay players to play for a club in a minor league.

What's in it for them ? 

You're not going to get an open top bus ride at that level, are you ?

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
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By Huw Williams
11th Jun 2014 15:50

it's not the playing, it's the ... that counts

lionofludesch wrote:

I can never understand why someone would pay players to play for a club in a minor league.

What's in it for them ? 

You're not going to get an open top bus ride at that level, are you ?

 

Haven't you heard of winning? Some people will pay anything for their team to..  Even buying a season ticket.

 

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
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By IslingtonAccountant
11th Jun 2014 16:17

It can happen

Two of my (formerly) local teams; AFC Fylde & Fleetwood Town. The former was in the West Lancashire League in the late 90s, but are now 2 promotions away from the Football League. They won the FA Vase at Wembley a few years ago and did indeed have a open top bus parade.  The latter was in the 10th tier of English football in 1997 - come August they will be in league one playing the likes of Sheffield United & Coventry.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By lionofludesch
11th Jun 2014 17:34

This thread

GraemeYoung1982 wrote:

Two of my (formerly) local teams; AFC Fylde & Fleetwood Town. The former was in the West Lancashire League in the late 90s, but are now 2 promotions away from the Football League. They won the FA Vase at Wembley a few years ago and did indeed have a open top bus parade.  The latter was in the 10th tier of English football in 1997 - come August they will be in league one playing the likes of Sheffield United & Coventry.

So this is the level we're speaking of in this thread, then ?

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By penguin
11th Jun 2014 13:03

Surely not

Cannot believe that some people in football do not declare their earnings !! From Sepp Blatter to the kid in the park, they are 100% honest. 

No brown envelopes,meetings at service stations Andre Kanchelkis and Fergie, it never happens.

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By finegana
11th Jun 2014 22:46

the majority of players will opt to take the risk

in this scenario, they "are already paying tax" and don't want to pay any more...or, "it's only a hobby why should I pay tax" there's a slight risk of being caught via a PAYE investigation into the club and they will just hope they've moved on before that occurs.

if there's cash from ticket or merchandise sales, or the manager/directors put their own (already taxed) money on the table for the players "how are HMRC going to find it?" is the general view.

As you say it goes in as expenses, and there's paperwork to support it...where do those receipts come from?!

Simple answer, as a professional, is don't deal with them if they don't "want to play ball".  It's our job to make them aware of their responsibilities, we can't do much more sometimes.

If all players were registered at every level with the relevant league, and the club simply had to be seen to remunerate them via PAYE for playing in each match by that same league then HMRC may stand a chance. Even if nil payslips are produced for those lesser players than the lucky guy quoted by the OP.

When I played I was registered with the leagues via the clubs, but I don't recall my NI number being requested at any time.

If they can then get the registered players details, & match those to SA returns; they've done similar with the Direct Selling Association, and the Football Coach badges recently which has had some success but it's all small fry at the end of the day.

League subs will be going up due to the extra admin burden, clubs will cease to operate and new non-compliant leagues would be created I expect.  there's a careful balance to be had in promoting grass-roots football for the betterment of society and revenue collection.

Interesting subject though!

 

 

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By Pelican
12th Jun 2014 12:19

People want there club to do well.

The chairman of these clubs will probably own a local business and sponsor the team shirts. This will hopefully bring them in more work while building up a network.

From speaking to an ex-treasurer of a football club at that level. Money was paid out as expenses e.g. car mileage to away games although everyone owes every team goes by coach.

Again the question of paperwork for these expenses would be interesting to see.

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By Ned Ludd
12th Jun 2014 13:58

local sunday football


the best teams in our local sunday league pay players such is the competition.

 

Many of those players also pay Saturdays at North East Counties level or Northern Premier League level.

 

All in all some can make a tidy sum each week especially as the Saturday teams tend t have midweek games as well.

 

Its only a matter of time until HMRC "tackle" the position and referees will get brought into it as well.

 

On a foot note the best 2 sunday teams in our local league would probably wipe the floor with most North East Counties teams when you see the personnel they've got playing for them. In fact last pre season one of the teams beat a Sheff Wednesday reserve team!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Replying to jpcentral:
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By lionofludesch
12th Jun 2014 19:01

Impressive ????

Ned Ludd wrote:

 In fact last pre season one of the teams beat a Sheff Wednesday reserve team!!

Hope that's not intended to impress.......

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By Ned Ludd
13th Jun 2014 00:31

Haha
Fair comment mate!

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By JFPaccounting
20th Jun 2014 16:42

'It appears to be happening at every club around the part time level'

A very bold statement which is totally untrue.

I play semi professional/part time on a Saturday and earn a very nice wage from it. The club I play for (currently in the conference south) operate a PAYE scheme with all players and is the case with every part time club I have played for. Granted clubs in the lower reaches of the non league pyramid pay players 'cash in hand' however most of these clubs can not afford to pay the £400 a month let alone per game that you state.

It definitely needs looking into by HMRC but to say every club around the part time level pays cash in hand is very far from the truth

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Replying to GHarr497688:
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By Pelican
20th Jun 2014 17:41

part time footballers

JFPaccounting wrote:

'It appears to be happening at every club around the part time level'

A very bold statement which is totally untrue.

I play semi professional/part time on a Saturday and earn a very nice wage from it. The club I play for (currently in the conference south) operate a PAYE scheme with all players and is the case with every part time club I have played for. Granted clubs in the lower reaches of the non league pyramid pay players 'cash in hand' however most of these clubs can not afford to pay the £400 a month let alone per game that you state.

It definitely needs looking into by HMRC but to say every club around the part time level pays cash in hand is very far from the truth

The level is below conference south and the player in question is being paid £400 a game. A few others are on about £300.

The chairman of the club is a very wealthy man and is ploughing all his money into the club.

The player in question actually turned down a pro contract with a league club at the end of last season because of the money is was offered at this club.

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By Flash Gordon
20th Jun 2014 16:49

Part-time footballers

I assumed this was a thread about the England team!

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