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PAYE in year penalties

PAYE in year penalties

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18th Feb 2010 10:36


Anyone knowthe best way of registering clients as wishing to pay quarterly?

I expect HMRC to be issuing these penalties like confetti and this seems a quick easy way to reduce exposure by 2/3s.  

I don't suppose one can do this online like the simple "notification of no payment due" at


thanks Tim


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18th Feb 2010 13:07

Quarterly payment

I have just received the yellow payslip booklet for a new PAYE scheme for a client.  It comes with a slip of paper (form P30(QP)2008, since you wanted to know) headed "Making quarterly payments".  It makes no mention of registering to pay quarterly and merely says "if your average monthly payments ... are less than £1,500 you can choose to pay quarterly rather than monthly".

Which is probably why the Revenue never sends out PAYE payment reminders until the Month 3 payment is late.

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18th Feb 2010 13:27


How will HMR&C know if an employer hasn't paid enough PAYE for a month/quarter (i.e. pays something on account for quarters 1,2 & 3 and makes up the shortfall in Q 4 ? Sure the payments are going to look lobsided but there could be genuine seasonal reasons for this.

At the moment all you do is send of a payslip, they don't get to see any p32 forms.

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18th Feb 2010 14:17

It has always been the case

 ... that the Revenue do not know if PAYE has been calculated correctly during the year.

These penalties are for paying late and will apply to the amounts paid, regardless of whether those amounts have been calculated correctly or not.

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18th Feb 2010 14:36


So you can pay over £1 for quarters 1,2 and 3 and £3,000 for quarter 4 and there will be no penalty as long as the payments are on time ?

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By Old Greying Accountant
18th Feb 2010 23:38

I think you might find...

...there would be severe penalties for deliberately mis-stating your PAYE laibility and if you were playing monopoly it would be go straight to jail and do not pass go.

I just hope you are joking, but some topics should be avoided, especially as non accountants read these threads and may well act on comments made, not realising they are (I hope) flippant, especially with the current furore about who is an agent etc.!


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19th Feb 2010 12:02

Partly joking..

I've got in mind a client who I do payroll for. No matter how many reminders and cajouling i give him, he basically only lets me know at the end of the tax year what he has paid his staff. During the year he takes a stab at what deductions should be made from the staff. I'm pretty sure he pays the vast majority of his PAY in Q4.

If this new penalty regime is a stick for me to persuade him to give me monthly information then I would welcome it.


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20th Feb 2010 09:58

Quarterly PAYE and late Payment Penalties

Thanks Euan.   What has set me off on this is my having used a 5 December payslip for the 5 January quarterly payment, and then receiving a reminder, as if no payment has been made.  

Also, HMRC seem to be ramming home the message that 'you must tell us if no payment is due'.   Why?

Ideally now, I would like to receive Yellow Giroslip booklets with just 4 printed payslips, but have also received one P30B form which makes me think that HMRC are not even going to send those, instead trying to push everyone to pay electronically; 250 employees or not.

All of the above and previous experience are prompting me to expect erroneous penalties by the cartload.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.




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20th Feb 2010 11:52

Reminders & Payslips


Unless you are a repeat offender with late monthly PAYE payments, HMRC only seem to issue reminders after not receiving a quarterly payslip (either for an amount or nil) or online notification that no PAYE is due.

Why notify nil PAYE due?  Isn't it obvious?  If you don't, HMRC will issue a reminder.  In your case, having made a mistake and submitted a payslip for Month 8, you should have submitted a nil payslip for Month 9.

HMRC issue booklets of payslips (always 12 months plus a spare) for the next tax year only if you have used them in the current year; they also issue them to new PAYE scheme registrations for the remaining months of the year.  You might wish to receive a booklet with only 4 quarterly payslips, but how is HMRC expected to know that you will not exceed £1,500 of PAYE a month in the next tax year and therefore have to pay monthly?  If you don't use the paper payslips, you will get the letter which assumes electronic payment and no more payslips.  That seems entirely reasonable.  Saves trees, etc.  My only concern is that if you use the payslip to make a giro payment at your own bank (rather than sending it with a cheque in the post), HMRC regards that as an electronic payment and may not issue payslips for the following year.

I agree with OGA about deliberately understating PAYE payments for the first three quarters - paying all the PAYE in Quarter 4 is likely to attract the attention of HMRC under the new penalty regime.

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20th Feb 2010 17:32

Reminders and Penalties


Thanks for shaing your thoughts.  I'd thought that sometime in the distant past I'd seen a 4 payslip booklet, for the Simplified Domestic Scheme, but may be mistaken.   However, I'm all for saving trees and a 4/5 payslip booklet  would also be more reassuring than filing nil payslips (which i do at present, or online, or both).   HMRC would know, if you needed more payslips, if you informed them or risked a penalty by paying £4501+ next quarter.

I bet you're right, that the client concerned has paid at the post office with a cheque.   They're an old fellas social club who won't be computerising so I've emailed Cumbernauld at the address at the bottom of the P30B.  

Withdrawing payslip booklets is exactly the sort of cajoling we could do without when that can directly lead to late payment. 


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