Has anyone received a PAYE- Late payment penalty warning for April 2010-11 in the post yet? We have despite the fact our PAYE is paid by electronic transfer on the correct due date. After spending 20 minutes hanging on the line to Accounts Office Shipley, I eventually spoke to someone who initially said 'our system shows that your payment wasn't processed until 25 May! Followed by 'our new guidance states that we must receive your payment 3 working days before the due date in order for it to be credited to our account'! When I explained to him how electronic transfer works and that the money leaves our account (21 May) in this instance, for immediate credit to the Revenue account on the same day it threw him a bit. I asked him how did he think our salaries were paid? So another 10 minutes on the line whilst he checked it out. He came back and said yes the Revenue did actually receive the payment by the due date of 22 May...hooray! However it was not 'processed' by the Revenue until 25 May! Well hang on a minute thats not my fault. So I asked if this was going to happen every month, are the Revenue not aware of this problem? Eventually he admitted that yes the Revenue are aware of the problem and are 'looking into it' and apparently someone will get back to me on this.
So I wonder how many notices we'll receive in tomorrow's post? (and next month and next month....)
What a complete waste of time and money. It's a shame we can't penalise the Revenue for their Inefficiencies!
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PAYE Penalties
We have had a late payment notice this morning for a payment that was sent long before the due date.
In every instance of an error by HMRC I have to 'waste' time on hold, and they always ask for everything in writing.
In our practice we find it unfair to bill a client for HMRC errors. Maybe they should re-imburse us for our time at our normal fee rate. Maybe then they could alter their system so that we no longer have to write to them because of their mistakes!
Quarterly payment
We have had several such penalty warnings today and calls from clients who have received them.
One problem is that the warnings appear to have been issued after non-payment of the first month's PAYE regardless of whether the client intends to pay (or submit a nil payslip) quarterly. As the Revenue says in its guidance, it is entirely up to the employer to choose to pay quarterly (if his monthly PAYE would be less than £1,500) and there is no mechanism for notifying the Revenue. Their advice is only to submit any payment for the quarter as Month 3 to 5th July. At least, it is possible to submit a nil payslip online for Month 3 now, so if you know that the client will not be paying any PAYE, you can do that and hopefully, the Revenue will take that as notice that nothing is due for Months 1 & 2 as well.
At the end of the day, they are only warning letters. Penalties will not be imposed until after the end of the tax year when the cycle of payments will be obvious.
Quarterly payments
HMRC will update their records to show quarterly payments (client was moving from monthly to quarterly payments). At the same time found that another client was automatically set to quarterly as it was a new scheme.
I rang the number on the payslip booklet (0845 366 7816), sat on hold for 20 mins but it was worth it.
EW
PAYE late payment penalty
Have you tried the agents and advisors helplines?
They are normally very prompt and helpful
Perhaps you were late paying...
"When I explained to him how electronic transfer works and that the money leaves our account (21 May) in this instance, for immediate credit to the Revenue account on the same day it threw him a bit."
HMRC can't receive payments via the same day 'faster payments service' - only via BACS (the standard 3 day cycle electronic bank transfer) or CHAPS (same day, but expensive).
The website does specifically state that when the 22nd is a Saturday, payment must be received by Friday 21st and that the deadline for making a BACS payment would be Wednesday 19th.
Perhaps you were late paying
'When I explained to him how electronic transfer works and that the money leaves our account (21 May) in this instance, for immediate credit to the Revenue account on the same day it threw him a bit."
Ok I meant BACS! Have always paid this way and never been late. In any case didn't you read my note, the Revenue admitted that the payment had been received on time and shown as a credit as at the 22nd but had not been processed by them until the 25th! They also said they were aware ofthe problem and are looking into it.
BACS - 3 working days?
I thought that payments by BACS took three working days.
So, if the money is sent on Friday 21st May, then reaches HMRC bank account on Tuesday 25th May = LATE.
CHAPS is a different matter (a same day transfer) but the bank charges usually rule this one out.
Bacs 3 Working days.
Ok here's how it works. 3 Day transfer. If you intend paying something by, in this case the 21 May, the latest you can instruct your bank that the 'value' date (payment date) is the 21st is 19 May. What is all the fuss about read the original note, the Revenue admit they received the payment on time but they didn't process the payment until 25th therefore PAYMENT WAS NOT LATE. The point of all this is that 'customers' will be receiving these notices needlessly because the Revenue haven't got their act together and because they are not 'processing' payments received on time their computed system is automatically churning out the notices which are not only a waste of paper, postage and time, they cause undue stress and anxiety for businesses already burdened with dealing with the recession, health & safety and whatever else you care to mention.
So it was late...
"Ok I meant BACS! Have always paid this way and never been late. In any case didn't you read my note, the Revenue admitted that the payment had been received on time and shown as a credit as at the 22nd but had not been processed by them until the 25th!"
If you paid by (3-working day) BACS on the 21st, then it wouldn't have reached them on the 22nd, no matter what the confused minion on the phone may have said.
"They also said they were aware of the problem and are looking into it."
HMRC are certainly aware of the 'problem' - the 'problem' being that they can't currently receive payments via the (same day) Faster Payments Service.
From the HMRC website's How to Pay page: "HMRC is currently unable to receive or make payments using the Faster Payments Service (FPS), which is offered by some banks, however it will be reviewing the situation during 2010."
Best thing to do next time is to check the useful page on the HMRC website which tells you which day you must send the payment, so it reaches them on time if paying by BACS.
HMRC in cahoots with the banks re. FPS ?
I'm not at all convinced that HRMC "can't" receive via FPS. They have chosen not to... despite switching from BoE to private sector bank(s), who have no trouble with FPS for everyone else. Motive, I suggest, is (a) maximise late-payment penalties, and (b) lucrative non-exec Board appointments for senior HMRC / treasury folk upon retirement.
Or am I missing something...?
BACS - 3 working days
BACS does take 3 working days - you create the instruction in advance and it debits and credits both accounts simultaneously on 3rd (or nominated) day. I would have thought that if it debited client account on 21st, with bacs it would be with HMRC also on 21st - still at least they say they had it on 22nd.
Julian Ansell
So far as I am aware there is not an agents line for PAYE, can someone please correct me if I am wrong. The only way to advise that quarterly not monthly payments are due is to call the PAYE office, wait 20 minutes or more and ask! It would also help to have access to PAYE records on line but apparently there is no chance of that happening.
You are missing something... :-)
"I'm not at all convinced that HRMC "can't" receive via FPS. [...] Or am I missing something...?"
Each bank has its own rules about sending and receiving money via the Faster Payments Service and many organisations who receive bulk payments are currently unable to receive money via FPS.
According to a BBC report just last week 'one in four credit card companies still cannot receive faster payments'. So it's not just HMRC.. the whole FPS system is a bit of as mess.
Yes and no...
"BACS does take 3 working days - you create the instruction in advance and it debits and credits both accounts simultaneously on 3rd (or nominated) day. I would have thought that if it debited client account on 21st, with bacs it would be with HMRC also on 21st - still at least they say they had it on 22nd."
That's how it works for Direct Debits. And it's how it works for big organisations when makimg Direct Credit payments.
But for the average person using telephone or internet banking, or making one-payments the money is deducted on day 1 and payment credited to the recipient's bank account on day 3 of the cycle.
So back to the OP... did you initiate payment on the 19th or the 21st? (And if you did it on the 19th, why didn't you say so at the start!)
when I read this post
I give up in thinking that Accountants are up to date. There is a website that gives details of faster payments and the big five are all listed. HMRC bank at Nat WEST /RBS (our bank we as tapayers are majority shareholders).
Website http://www.ukpayments.org.uk/sort_code_checker/
As an alternative one can pay PAYE by debit/credit card. The website there says three days to clear but we always get a same day receipt showing the payment being made.
Really this post should not be necessary. The amounts that it must cost HMRC to put right all these incorrect penalty notices must be greater than the income from penalties.
HM Banking
Thought I would stir the pot a bit more by pointing out that the Revenue now use Santander! I also Bank with Santander and have to say that normal transactions can often take FOUR working days.
Anyway Debit Card is King. I was told by our wonderful HM Officers (VAT and Tax) that, because funds were verified as cleared before the transaction was completed, payment on the last date would count as having been received on time. My clients pay that way and we have not had a penalty notice yet! If clients are not computer literate and do not want to give their 5 year old their card details to process for them we usually offer them the telephone helpline (same result), talk them through the how to do it bit (usually only needs once or twice at most) or as a very last option we do it for them.
To those people who do not realise you can submit a monthly PAYE Return online for a zero figure I would refer you to HM Revenue Web site/Employers/PAYE-all tasks/PAYE online filing and payments/Making PAYE/NI payments to HMRC/how to pay PAYE/Class 1 NIC/Notifying HMRC if no payment is due(7th up from bottom)/ Notify HMRC online that no PAYE/National Insurance contributions payment is due.
I have never had a problem with getting through to agent lines and they have generally been pretty helpful. I believe there is now one centralized self assessment helpline who can deal with all queries (the number is 0845 366 7855). I think you can email queries through to the PAYE dept, better than hanging on for 20mins.
BJC
Sorry Beverley
but sort code 57-80-49 per PAYE payslip is Nat West. Type sort code into Google to check
HM Banking
Oops. You are right Paul. It is the Bill Pay by card that is managed by Santander!
I did however check and the new single Agent's line 08453667855 does cover self assessment and PAYE individual enquiries so that might save some people hanging on for ever.