Paying for travel to work

Tax deductible travel expenses?

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I have an associate dentist client who would like to pay for the travel to work expenses of her dental nurse. My client is self employed but is not, of course, the employer of the nurse, the employer is the principal dentist. The nurse is frequently late for work as she uses London buses, and the question my client asks is whether she can pay the, more expensive, train fare for the nurse. The nurse will then be on time.

Will this be tax deductible for my client? I need to mention to my client the consequences for the nurse though, who presumably will be liable for tax on the travel costs as they are a benefit derived by reason of her employment. But not paid through PAYE.

The nurse is a basic rate tax payer but my client is a higher rate tax payer so some gain here I suppose. Any thoughts

Replies (17)

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By Moonbeam
19th May 2016 09:57

Client just agrees that nurse will invoice him more, the extra amount to cover the cost of the train fares. If nurse feels extra tax is too much client can just keep hiking up how much he will agree for her to charge.

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By Duggimon
19th May 2016 11:06

I would have thought the best approach would be to censure the employee for being repeatedly late and suggest taking an earlier bus but maybe I'm old fashioned like that and we ought not to expect everyone to make their own arrangements for getting to work on time!

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Replying to Emily Yan-Miles:
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By SteveRA
19th May 2016 12:42

Interesting assumptions here regarding gender, moonbeam assumes dentist is male and this post seems to imply nurse is female! Both are in fact female! But could we stick to the point? Can the dentist claim tax relief for the nurse who is employed and paid by someone else? The nurse is employed by the practice. My client is self employed and invoices the practice. She does not receive invoices from the nurse.

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Replying to Duggimon:
By itp3asso
20th May 2016 14:00

Hahaha. Great reply.

Unfortunately these basic tenets of good breeding and pride in work attendance by mist ranks went out the windiw slowly but surely, eroded as they were by the I WANT EVERYTHING AND I WANT JT NIW society engendered by a combination of feminism and the sacred cow of work/life balance which means married women ( and now married men ) spend more time at home on either paternity/maternity / elder or disabled relative leave than they do at work!!

For Gods sake just pay her in cash every month and forget the nitpicking tax implications.

Until they abolish money that is then you ll have to subsidise her in free check ups , fillings, bridges , crowns .......

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By iknell
19th May 2016 13:03

As the dental nurse is not legally contracted to your self employed dentist, I can't see how the payment for travel to employed work when employed by a third party can ever by allowable. Travel costs to and from one place of work isn't allowed. The only solution would be if the employer of the nurse increases her wage to cover the additional travel costs with your client invoicing less so the employer isn't out of pocket. But what makes you think the dental nurse will use this money to get the train? If the employer isn't censuring the nurse for her continual tardiness now why should she change?

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By Emily Yan-Miles
19th May 2016 13:13

Both girls eh? How very modern! ;) I had noticed from the OP.

You seem to be the one that assumed that for the parties to be [***] the associate dentist had to be male and the dental nurse had to be female.

I cannot see how what is essentially additional remuneration being paid to the dental nurse can be expenditure incurred wholly and exclusively for the associate dentist's business.

The dental practice ought to provide the associate dentist with a nurse who turns up on time.

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Replying to Emily Yan-Miles:
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By SteveRA
19th May 2016 16:38

You referred to the dental nurse as 'her', I make no assumptions whatsoever!

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By Democratus
19th May 2016 14:41

OK situation is
Assoc Dentist (AD) S/E contracted to Principal Dentist (PD)
Dental Nurse (DN) - PAYE employed by PD

There appears to be no contractual relationsip directly between AD and DN. Why can AD not pay DN for anything she likes? AD has in fact 2 jobs one PAYE, one S/E

DN has addition income which should go on SATR.

The reason for the income is irrelevant in this scenario. (IMHO) and i look forward to being corrected.

That being said - just give DN a written warning about timekeeping and monitor for improvement. That's the correct course of action.

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Replying to Democratus:
By Duggimon
19th May 2016 14:52

Democratus wrote:

There appears to be no contractual relationsip directly between AD and DN. Why can AD not pay DN for anything she likes? AD has in fact 2 jobs one PAYE, one S/E

As you say, AD can give DN whatever money they like without BIK implications, the other issue however, is whether the money they give DN would be tax deductible. It is not, for the same reason, DN is not an employee of theirs and the cost is not necessary for their business.

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Replying to Duggimon:
By Democratus
19th May 2016 15:15

Duggimon wrote:

As you say, AD can give DN whatever money they like without BIK implications, the other issue however, is whether the money they give DN would be tax deductible. It is not, for the same reason, DN is not an employee of theirs and the cost is not necessary for their business.

Agreed - but if AD pays DN a sum for each day she attends on time, not for actually getting there, then it should be OK as a WEN expense - incurred in the nature of the business as the AD cannot commence work with a DN (argument point accepted).

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Replying to Democratus:
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By SteveRA
19th May 2016 16:44

WEN being wholly, exclusively and necessary? We need not worry about necessary as this is not an employment expense, but yes, I like your idea of the payment for attending on time. If she was my employee I would not allow persistent lateness but these youngsters...

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Replying to SteveRA:
By Democratus
19th May 2016 17:25

Of course - belts and braces - i always like necessary.
Also need to demonstate no payment for not attending on time.

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By pauljohnston
20th May 2016 13:09

We all have made the assumption that all are at the same building (Me too) If not then payment of the taxis fare may be an allowable expense.

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Replying to pauljohnston:
By Duggimon
20th May 2016 14:29

What an odd thing to say. Dental nurse or dentist are not two professions that you would expect to find someone working remotely, I think it's safe to assume they work in the same place.

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By cheekychappy
20th May 2016 14:08

Has the dental nurse considered [***] a train conductor?

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