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Payroll Bureaus and File only agents

File only agents, including Payroll Bureaus, Important Update 8th April 2020:

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HMRC CJRS Update 8th April 2020

Highlight: File only agents, including Payroll Bureaus, will not be able to access the service due for Furlough 

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/UKHMRCED/bulletins/2855257

 

The Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (CJRS)

In response to the coronavirus pandemic, the Chancellor announced a series of measures to support businesses and their employees. One of those measures is the CJRS, that allows employers to claim 80% of the wages of staff (up to a maximum of £2,500 per employee) that they have furloughed (been put on temporary leave).

HMRC is working at a pace to deliver the service that will allow businesses to make a claim. Businesses, and agents that are authorised to act on behalf of clients for PAYE matters, will be able to claim. However, file only agents, including Payroll Bureaus, will not be able to access the service due to data protection reasons.

File only agents

If you are a file only agent, we still need your support. You will need to help your clients, as you might hold information that they need to make their claim. Businesses will need the following information on each of their furloughed employees:

National Insurance number

salary, National Insurance and pension contribution information that allows business to calculate the claim amount.

Service launch

We are ready to launch on 20 April. This will be made public shortly, at which point we will be contacting businesses to advise them what they need to do. At this point we would welcome you also contacting your clients and offering yourselves as vital support during this process, either directly, if authorised, or indirectly if you are a file only agent.

Replies (43)

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By [email protected]
08th Apr 2020 13:29

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Job Retention Scheme
During this webinar we’ll be taking a look at:
• furloughed workers
• who can apply for the scheme
• following the rules of the scheme
• how much may be claimed
• how to claim and what you’ll need to claim.

https://links.advice.hmrc.gov.uk/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9s...

Thanks (6)
Replying to [email protected]:
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By lincolnartist
08th Apr 2020 13:48

Thank you for this, I have registered

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Replying to [email protected]:
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By Southwestbeancounter
08th Apr 2020 14:00

Great! Thanks for sharing....

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Replying to [email protected]:
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By sarah douglas
08th Apr 2020 14:05

Thank you Sam I have now register.

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Replying to [email protected]:
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By Karlos1986
08th Apr 2020 23:30

Excellent, thanks for the link

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By 0098087
08th Apr 2020 13:34

This is so so wrong, We have 100 payrolls and we have to enter every NI number. Why could not this have been through software.

Surely software testing no different than setting up a portal. The time it will take will ineviably lead to higher client bills when software would have been so much easier. As i said to another post, I bet Starbucks and McDs won't have to enter every NI number.,or Primark, or John Lewis...,etc

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RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Apr 2020 13:36

"However, file only agents, including Payroll Bureaus, will not be able to access the service due to data protection reasons."

Tssk - Bureaux, surely. Standards of English in the Civil Service these days !!

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By memyself-eye
08th Apr 2020 14:53

True, standards these days are bolleaux!

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Universe
By SteveOH
08th Apr 2020 13:36

I'm not quite sure what HMRC mean by a file only agent. I run the payrolls for my clients and have the necessary 64-8s in place. I send them monthly payslips, file their automatic enrolment submissions and their RTI submissions. Am I a file only agent?

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Replying to SteveOH:
By 0098087
08th Apr 2020 13:41

If you can see their account online then you are NOT a file only agent

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Replying to 0098087:
Universe
By SteveOH
08th Apr 2020 14:04

Thanks 0098087.

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Replying to 0098087:
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By Matrix
08th Apr 2020 14:21

Exactly, if you have agent online access to their PAYE account then you can file the reclaim so we have an answer.

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By moboffsol
08th Apr 2020 13:52

I am in the process of setting up paye online accounts for my clients (who I currently already have access to their accounts). It is a long process, due you think I am ok to stop and hope we can do it through our agent account?

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Replying to moboffsol:
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By sarah douglas
08th Apr 2020 14:27

My understanding from this bulletin is that will not be able to do it through the agent. But that is my interpretation from the bulletin. Others may have different views.

Edit Update: see below sorry I misread your post Matrix and Red below is correct.

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Replying to sarah douglas:
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By Matrix
08th Apr 2020 14:04

It says that agents can file in your post though?

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Replying to Matrix:
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By sarah douglas
08th Apr 2020 14:31

I misread the post that they were acting like a payroll bureau, hence my interpretation. Apologies. I was sharing the bulletin with other accountants. Hopefully, there will be more clarification. I am new the procedures the same as everyone else.

Edit Update: see below sorry I misread your post Matrix and Red below is correct.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By moboffsol
08th Apr 2020 14:21

That's how I'm reading too. Before this email came through, I miraculously got through on Employer Helpline Webchat and the person told me at that stage that all clients must have their own paye online account to claim furlough pay back so...
I began the tedious task of doing this and then the email came through making it sound like we can do it through our agency.... baffled, confused, undecided???
Wondering if the online person had not been updated this morning aaarrrgghhh

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Replying to moboffsol:
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By sarah douglas
08th Apr 2020 14:23

Apologies Moboffsol. I misread your post. Matrix is right. Sorry I am new to all this as well. Kind Regards Sarah

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Replying to Matrix:
RedFive
By RedFive
08th Apr 2020 14:22

I've interpreted it differently Sarah.

"agents that are authorised to act on behalf of clients for PAYE matters, will be able to claim" - (from the email)

My interpretation; If set up as a PAYE agent (you can see the clients PAYE account on your agent login) then you WILL be able to file via that login.

If not (a file only agent) then you can't and will have to set up BTA's to help them or they do it themselves (Ha!)

We were in the process of setting up BTA's or adding PAYE to existing ones as a backup (as we did for MTD back in the day) but this is good news.

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Replying to RedFive:
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By sarah douglas
08th Apr 2020 14:32

Hi Red Five

I misread the post and I have apologised above, both yourself and Matrix are right. I was sharing bulletin with other accountants. I am as new to this as everyone else. Need to read posts slower.
Kind Regards Sarah

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Replying to sarah douglas:
RedFive
By RedFive
08th Apr 2020 14:34

No need to apologise, I was typing while you responded so we 'crossed in the post' as it were.

Thansk for posting, hope all is well in sunny Glasgeeee :)

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Replying to RedFive:
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By sarah douglas
08th Apr 2020 14:43

Thanks Redfive. It is actually sunny in Glasgow this week the weather has been lovely. I must admit I am enjoying my evening walks hearing the birds and little or no cars. I will miss the quiet from fewer cars when we are back to normal. Hope all is well with you.

All these updates are hard to keep up with. Other Colleagues admitted to getting email and not reading it. They need to be careful to let the HMRC staff know what they are emailing out.

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Replying to sarah douglas:
By SteLacca
08th Apr 2020 15:26

It's cracking the flags here in Cheshire, too. I wonder is this unusual weather, or normal weather when people stop?

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Replying to SteLacca:
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By sarah douglas
08th Apr 2020 15:31

You do wonder?

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By SXGuy
08th Apr 2020 14:34

So basically anyone not already on our agent account for paye. Ie those we can't see paye details for. We will have to get authorisation requests through in order to submit the claim? I think I have 2 out of 7 already in my account. God help those with 100s of client payrolls.

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By debrahuzzard
08th Apr 2020 15:20

sorry if I am being thick but I recently took on some payroll only work for another accountant . I have 64-8s in for my own clients but for these others, I just went through the online authorisation process and have them on my online gateway but no 64-8. Do you think being able to see what PAYE they have paid etc through my gateway is sufficient for me to do the furlough claims or will paper 64-8s also be needed?

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Replying to debrahuzzard:
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By Matrix
08th Apr 2020 16:32

Yes I do based on the bulletin.

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By ldav
08th Apr 2020 16:43

I think we are considered file only by HMRC for our clients. We complete the online agent authorisation process so they appear on our list under PAYE for agents but we cannot see the PAYE account. What is the quickest way to set this part up? We haven't completed FBI-2's in the past.

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Replying to ldav:
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By bettybobbymeggie
08th Apr 2020 19:25

I think you must have a different agent account to mine then. From memory none of mine have paper 64-8s in place, pretty sure all done via online agent authorisation. From the agent services dashboard click on PAYE which takes you to your PAYE for employers client list, then provided it says "Confirmed" next to each client you click on the client to then see their PAYE account...allocations, payments, etc.

If you have the above functionality in your agent account I believe you will be able to claim. Paper 64-8s and FBI-2s not necessary.

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Replying to ldav:
By Duggimon
08th Apr 2020 20:56

You can file PAYE with just the codes and no authorisation. This is how payroll bureaux do it, and that's what file only means. If you have been formally authorised (and online should count as well as by 64-8) you will be able to file. If the client appears on your agent account under the PAYE service, I think you're good.

We started just this last tax year getting authorised for all our payroll clients and I'm extremely glad we did, we have several hundred.

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By laurence20
14th Apr 2020 09:51

Could someone just clear this up for me . I act for around 50 payroll clients , we file paper 64-8 's to hmrc when acting on behalf of a new client and we also do self assessment, vat and other services for them

On my HMRC paye agent account none of these clients are on my account.
Will this mean I cant file the claim on there behalf unless I sign them all up to the agent account online?

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Replying to laurence20:
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By bettybobbymeggie
14th Apr 2020 10:11

Good question - paper 64-8s do not give online access to PAYE - for that you also need an FBI2. The email specifically asks if your client uses "an agent who is authorised to act for you for PAYE purposes". By virtue of the paper 64-8 I'd say you are, but given you do not have the FBI2 in place and given the new portal will be based online there may be an issue for you.

There are HMRC webinars underway and this question will surely come up in the Q&A. I am doing mine at 2pm today and will report back with any new information.

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Replying to bettybobbymeggie:
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By laurence20
14th Apr 2020 10:21

Thanks for getting back to me .

Any feed back would be appreciated , i'm just worried that i'm going to be stuck when the portal does open

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By Degan89
15th Apr 2020 09:39

Hi all, I submit payrolls through sage payroll which is linked to our agents gateway, and have 64-8s in place for all of our PAYE clients. When i log into our HMRC agent gateway i can see all our PAYE, VAT , CT etc clients. However i can't check on this online gateway any PAYE that is outstanding (can check by calling HMRC) but i can submit P11D's online if needed.

Am i classed as a file only agent/payroll bureau?

Any advice welcome.

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By Cm15221
15th Apr 2020 15:17

I too am unclear if I am a file only agent or not. I have requested in the past to act on behalf of my clients using the online method. I have not applied using the paper 64/8 forms. My understanding is this gives me full authority to act on behalf of my clients PAYE. Indeed they appear in my list of clients on HMRC website and for each I can edit the details change names addresses etc as well as receiving tax code changes etc. I have called HMRC PAYE line today to check my status , they told me unless I had sent in a paper 64/8 I am a file only agent and would be unable to submit the job retention claim on behalf of my clients. I queued thus telling the operative I have full access online and indeed in the past have talked to HMRC re problems on their PAYE account. Surely she is talking nonsense? I have since tried to call HMRC to challenge this but of course the lines are full now. Sorry for the long winded post I just wanted to make things clear

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Replying to Cm15221:
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By Matrix
15th Apr 2020 15:48

It is so nonsensical. But I think we will be fine. There is no way that they will have a system to check if we have a paper 64-8 or not.

Conversely I have a 64-8 for one client but no online access.

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By bettybobbymeggie
15th Apr 2020 16:26

ICAEW:

https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/2020/apr-2020/covi...

"Agents authorised to act for PAYE purposes will be able to make claims on behalf of clients. The Tax Faculty has sought further clarification on the type of authorisation required: 64-8, FBI2 and online agent authorisation."

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Replying to bettybobbymeggie:
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By laurence20
15th Apr 2020 16:43

So I guess that means any kind of 64-8 that has been sent in , paper or online is fine ?

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Replying to laurence20:
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By bettybobbymeggie
15th Apr 2020 17:11

No I think it means ICAEW also don't know and have therefore asked HMRC for clarity.

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RedFive
By RedFive
15th Apr 2020 17:29

It’s going to be a car crash.

I’ve already opened the wine.

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By laurence20
17th Apr 2020 10:11

Just a heads up if anyone was still stuck.
None of my clients are on my agents account, however it takes two seconds to set up an account for each client individually using your own email each time just jot down each clients user i.d i have used the same password for each clients for quickness.

I'm getting a confirmation email of each client to agree to me doing this just for data protection purposes

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Replying to laurence20:
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By laurence20
17th Apr 2020 10:10

Also can i just add , even if your client had an old log in for the goverment gateway when vats were submitted the old way for example , you can still set up a new one for this .

With me working from home i don't have access to any client files so thought this might of been an issue , thankfully it doesn't seem to be

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Replying to laurence20:
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By laurence20
17th Apr 2020 10:10

Also can i just add , even if your client had an old log in for the goverment gateway when vats were submitted the old way for example , you can still set up a new one for this .

With me working from home i don't have access to any client files so thought this might of been an issue , thankfully it doesn't seem to be

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