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Poll: How do you rate Drummohr after the conversion to the cloud? 1 for not fit for purpose to 10 for superb

Poll: How do you rate Drummohr after the...

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Trying to get a poll on how users feel about the Drummohr software after having converted to the cloud.

Please rate between:

1 not fit for purpose

to

10 for Superb

Replies (87)

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By Manchester_man
18th Apr 2016 20:26

Drummohr?  I used to use Drummohr Tax Assistant but they were bought out by Iris.  I know someone who still uses it under the Iris brand.  It has never been in the "cloud" so I've no idea what you mean?

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By CarolBlain
19th Apr 2016 07:45

Drummohr

At least -10

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By Matt Stenson
20th Apr 2016 18:23

Nightmare (agree with at least -10)

We have used Drummohr for 10+ years and always been happy until now. Our upgrade took 4 weeks to sort out and now we are in the cloud, the software has loads of glitches. Every tax return is currently taking an hour extra to do with unknown errors galore that we have to guess on. I've tried calling support but there was no answer from my "dedicated" task force member, 25 minutes queue on the main number so I emailed them yesterday and still no reply. We are tearing our hair out with it. If we can find a reasonably priced alternative that offers a way to migrate the data, we will move straight away.

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By gavinbrown1984
21st Apr 2016 09:34

minus ten!!!

 

as with matt we have used this for over ten years and the switch to the cloud has been very disappointing.  its slow, not working correctly and not user friendly.

 

our subscription ends in June so looking to move before then.  Taxcalc is looking good for us at the moment.  i have experimented with a trial version and looks excellent.

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Replying to gavinbrown1984:
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By gavinbrown1984
04th Jul 2016 12:47

gavinbrown1984 wrote:

minus ten!!!

 

as with matt we have used this for over ten years and the switch to the cloud has been very disappointing.  its slow, not working correctly and not user friendly.

 

our subscription ends in June so looking to move before then.  Taxcalc is looking good for us at the moment.  i have experimented with a trial version and looks excellent.

following from my initial post back in April 2016, i would still be inclined to rate this a minus ten.

Despite the initial teething problems, the cloud system is still slow, not very intuitive like other software providers and just the feel/ look of the software does not seem very modern or 'up to date'.

It was our intention to move to taxcalc as i was very impressed with this and the customer software they provided. however, it appeared that a three month notice period was required to get out of the current contract, which we had missed and therefore toed ourselves into another years subscription.

A moan and complaint to Drumhor had resulted in someone higher up calling us, about three weeks after my initial complaint to see how we were getting on. i expressed our concerns and were promised a significant reduction on our fees for the poor service and switch over, this has not materialised!!

A major headache is the non automatic calculation of C2 NIC, being a new concept its fairly easy (in my opinion) to overlook, however i am getting into the swing of it now.

what will next year bring? notice given to Drumhor in plenty of time and a switch to taxcalc!!!

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Replying to gavinbrown1984:
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By carnmores
05th Jul 2016 13:04

frankly if it was me I would ignore the notice if the product is not fit for purpose bin it

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Replying to gavinbrown1984:
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By gavinbrown1984
04th Jul 2016 12:48

gavinbrown1984 wrote:

minus ten!!!

 

as with matt we have used this for over ten years and the switch to the cloud has been very disappointing.  its slow, not working correctly and not user friendly.

 

our subscription ends in June so looking to move before then.  Taxcalc is looking good for us at the moment.  i have experimented with a trial version and looks excellent.

following from my initial post back in April 2016, i would still be inclined to rate this a minus ten.

Despite the initial teething problems, the cloud system is still slow, not very intuitive like other software providers and just the feel/ look of the software does not seem very modern or 'up to date'.

It was our intention to move to taxcalc as i was very impressed with this and the customer software they provided. however, it appeared that a three month notice period was required to get out of the current contract, which we had missed and therefore toed ourselves into another years subscription.

A moan and complaint to Drumhor had resulted in someone higher up calling us, about three weeks after my initial complaint to see how we were getting on. i expressed our concerns and were promised a significant reduction on our fees for the poor service and switch over, this has not materialised!!

A major headache is the non automatic calculation of C2 NIC, being a new concept its fairly easy (in my opinion) to overlook, however i am getting into the swing of it now.

what will next year bring? notice given to Drumhor in plenty of time and a switch to taxcalc!!!

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By RFL H
21st Apr 2016 09:01

I can only hope

that Iris are reading this.

The old software was close to perfect.

The new software is ordinary but could be improved if they -

1 Give us back the same (much loved) reports - in particular the white paper return including client sign off and workings, and the HMRC filing acknowledgement

2 Allow HMRC credentials and email address per user

3 Sort out the display / colour scheme so we can see a whole page of the return on screen clearly (without using zoom)

4 Sort out the speed issues

5 Sort out answering the phone (if you decide to completely change how things work you really should expect users to call you and add resources)

6 Publish the known bugs prominently on the website (with expected fix times) - so we do not waste our time finding out if we are the only ones with that problem

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By lmtch938
21st Apr 2016 11:58

Drummohr Cloud

RFL H wrote:

that Iris are reading this.

The old software was close to perfect.

The new software is ordinary but could be improved if they -

1 Give us back the same (much loved) reports - in particular the white paper return including client sign off and workings, and the HMRC filing acknowledgement

2 Allow HMRC credentials and email address per user

3 Sort out the display / colour scheme so we can see a whole page of the return on screen clearly (without using zoom)

4 Sort out the speed issues

5 Sort out answering the phone (if you decide to completely change how things work you really should expect users to call you and add resources)

6 Publish the known bugs prominently on the website (with expected fix times) - so we do not waste our time finding out if we are the only ones with that problem

I agree with RFL H, I've had success getting support by email but have had to send numerous emails, should have been properly tested before going live. We're waiting on several fixes and can see other issues.

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By Tim Vane
21st Apr 2016 10:07

@MattStenson - there are plenty of alternatives. If you want desktop, take a look at Taxcalc. If you want to see how cloud software should work, take a look at Taxfiler. I believe Taxfiler can convert your data too. And it's cheaper. (And they used to offer a free licence if you were already on a contract with another supplier - not sure if they still do but very useful if you are stuck on an Iris contract).

 

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By benny
21st Apr 2016 11:16

just go

20 years with Drummohr but i'm afraid this has been the last straw. Total inability to get through on the helpline means i have given up. Trialed some alternatives and this week have moved to Taxcalc which already looks a much better option.

Re a score rating - 0. As i haven't been able to speak to anybody no idea if matters would ever improve but frankly no longer care

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By carnmores
21st Apr 2016 11:17

@manchester man

glad to see you are up to speed ;-)

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By Ajtms
21st Apr 2016 11:42

I have moved to Taxcalc too

After 15 happy years with Drummohr, I hate the compulsory move to the very inefficient cloud system without any more than 3 weeks notice. I moved instantly to Taxcalc where the support staff are brilliant and friendly. They moved as much data across as they could, but can't move all data. The Taxcalc program is infinitely better than Drummohr and their annual charge is less than half that I was paying to Drummohr. Why Iris want to put their Drummohr business into self-destruct mode I do not know, but like others, I now do not care.

If, like me users have struggled with Drummohr failings in the last month then I strongly recommend that users move to Taxcalc as soon as possible while they still have up-to date data on their old desktop system as you will never get access to your data once it is in their cloud.

 

 

 

 

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By sadler14
21st Apr 2016 11:44

Minus 10 is too good !

The "upgrade" was finally started on 12/04. They have apparently transferred our data to the cloud - unfortunately some of our clients are now missing and those that are there only seem to have tax returns for the some of the years we have acted for them.

9 days later and we're not bothering with them anymore. It's quicker just to start from scratch with Taxcalc.

Utter, utter rubbish.

 

 

 

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By petwencal
21st Apr 2016 11:48

CONCERNED

I'm supposed to be updated this afternoon.  I wasn't convince about moving to the cloud anyway but comments here are worrying.  Do I go ahead or find an alternative?

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By sadler14
21st Apr 2016 11:58

Re : Concerned

Dear Petwencal,

My advice would be keep everything safely on your computer.

The support at Taxcalc has been great so far, although they may be getting a little overrun now with ex-Drummohr  clients changing !

We'd been with Drummohr for 20 odd years, but at the end  leaving was a very easy decision.

 

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By TONY.TONYPOMFRET.COM
21st Apr 2016 12:06

DRUMMOHR

I agree with -10.

I have been a happy Drummohr user for 18 years, but I absolutely hate the new cloud software.

Despite the fact that we have fast broadband, it takes too long to log into our account and some of the procedures, particularly finalisation take an age to update. I also hate continually being logged out for inactivity. I tried to verify a tax return 6 times before it was available for submission despite not making any alterations to the return.

We have moved to TaxCalc and will have had great assistance in setting up. It is such intelligent software at half the price of Iris. We have also taken on board the Accounting module which is also great to use.

A free database comes with the software, and we have discovered that we can include all our contacts whether we act for them or not without affecting the statistics for outstanding accounts and tax returns. 

I cannot recommend TaxCalc highly enough.

 

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By petwencal
21st Apr 2016 12:09

RE: CONCERNED

sadler14 - thanks.  I think that is exactly what I wanted to hear.  I keep reading that I should move to the cloud but have not been convinced that

a. I need to 

b. It is as secure as the sales people will have you believe.

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By Ajtms
21st Apr 2016 12:14

I recommend Taxcalc

Hi Petwencal

As I mentioned above I strongly recommend Taxcalc. I have only been with them for 2 weeks but what a massive improvement over Drummohr's cloud. I did use to like Drummohr's simplicity when it was on my desktop for 15 years, but now I am pleased that I now have the old stuff for read only archive access. Taxcalc has so much more functionality and the data conversion that Robert at Taxcalc did was brilliant. It doesn't copy everything, but the small inconvenience of having to put in a few figures is significantly less than the hassle of the conversion and subsequent cloud problems.

 

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By mfbrown185
21st Apr 2016 12:20

Abject Failure

Agree with many comments here.

Been with Drummohr for 16years. Loved the desktop software became very speedy and proficient with it. Hate the Cloud version not intuitive at all.

I have problems with the final accounts acceptance on company accounts and the SNF Import for sole traders and partnerships doesn't work either.

I was given 3 weeks notice of the change and (of course) no choice but to accept it. The first installation failed to move over client data correctly, second installation took a further week to timetable and two days to work through with their Technicians - they then attached our current licence to the first install (which failed) 0 so I couldn't use the software again for 3 days.

Absolutely at my wits end and cannot get through to Support tried four times this morning and each time 25 to 30 minute wait(s).

Abject Failure

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By garethpgj
21st Apr 2016 16:05

Drummohr

I too have used Tax Assistant for 15-20 years and was very unimpressed with the short notice and the very poor quality of their cloud product.  Terrible conversion service and very slow clumsy software to use.

I looked around and have gone with Taxfiler.  It's cloud based but very intuitive to use.  You can login to their example client base and play around with tax returns to your heart's content.  

They've been able to convert pretty much all client data (additional one-off cost of £150) including for example bank and building society interest received details etc.  So far I'm very pleased with it and for a two user licence it costs only £360 p.a.

 

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Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
21st Apr 2016 16:43

Hands up, who is left with Drummohr

I moved about two years or so ago to Taxcalc and then transitioned from PTP to their accounts software a bit later, move was cost decision but by the sound of things glad I made the transition in my timetable rather than as a reaction to things outwith my control.

Taxcalc does what it ought, reminds me when I am being stupid, and once I got over the simple step screens  re  tax returns (annoyed me at first) I have been pretty happy.

The only issue to date re the tax  software was getting non trade loan transactions correctly adjusted for corporation tax (bit of a faff)

Couple of niggles with accounts where it would not let me present more detail than it wanted me to present, but all in all fairly painless transition after using Drummohr since  about 1996/1997 (I think)

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By Kathryn15
21st Apr 2016 16:57

Downgrade


We have also used Drummohr for 20 years and were very happy with it, although I felt it did suffer from lack of support after being taken over by Iris.  "Upgrade" to cloud happened on March 16th for us.  I received a phone call from someone today looking for my feedback and marks out of 10.  I advised him of a list of problems I have already experienced with the new software.  Unfortunately our licence has just been renewed or we would also be looking to move.  I gave the software 2/10 on the basis that there are some useful new features that I like but it is definitely not fit for purpose.

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By Ajtms
22nd Apr 2016 12:06

Claim a refund

Dear Kathryn15

As you rightly say "it's not fit for purpose" so surely you are entitled to a refund. Ask your local Trading Standards Officers. I fortunately only had 2 weeks left on by licence so didn't bother pursuing a part refund. As I mentioned above, change to Taxcalc whilst you have full access to your data on your desktop PC. In a year's time you will not have any data access to copy across as it will be locked into their cloud server.

 

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By mabzden
22nd Apr 2016 12:45

What is Iris up to?

I'm not a user myself but the comments above are pretty damning.

Is this "upgrade" a genuine attempt by Iris to beef up their cloud-based offerings? If so, it sounds a dismal failure - other cloud-based systems have been around for three years now, and Iris has had plenty of time to develop decent cloud-based software.

Or is it a cunning trick to force Drummohr users to move to the main, overpriced Iris system?

I really don't know which it is. I'm sure Iris would love to do the latter, but would they do this by deliberately creating bad software?

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By IanRiley
22nd Apr 2016 14:54

Zero out of 10 and that's being generous.

Been unable to submit either company accounts or Self assessment Returns due to various glitches or bogus errors that appear. Tried to call support today. Notified of 19 minute wait for call to be answered - 25 minutes hanging on later a recorded message comes on saying the wait is now 22 minutes !

The old Drummohr worked perfectly for 15 years and I don't think I ever needed the support line in all that time. I've had the IRIS support line on speed dial for the last month since the 'upgrade' (haha) took place.

Anyway, spoken to a nice guy at Taxfiler who will give me free access to their system for the remainder of my IRIS contract so it looks like aurevoir, adios, auf wiedersehen pet to IRIS.

 

 

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By Matt Stenson
22nd Apr 2016 17:08

Moved to Taxfiler

We've now given up trying to solve the issues with the Cloud Suite and trying to get help from them so following the comments above, we've moved to Taxfiler and I have to say, it is a far superior product. Their conversion program copied all 900 or so individual and partnership returns from Drummohr into their system in about an hour. They cannot transfer the company return information but if you can get the basic data into a csv file, their program will upload that but you have to manually enter any figures e.g. capital allowance balances etc.

I renewed Drummohr in February unfortunately so still have 10 months to run on the licence but Taxfiler will not start charging until that licence has run out so effectively we have a 10 month free trial period, which is brilliant.

Are PTP and Iris linked as PTP called out of the blue the other day to see if we were happy with our current supplier? I can't shake the feeling that Iris have done this on purpose. I suspect that because there is a vast difference in price between Drummohr and Iris, they decided to get rid of all the Drummohr clients and hope that some of them paid full price for Iris.

I have my solicitor looking into my options with Iris now

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By david lyon
22nd Apr 2016 18:04

Anyone out there still willing to give Drummohr Cloud Suite a chance? I have been in discussion with some of their senior staff who have tried to help me get on with things while the reported glitches are being monitored and hopefully resolved in the update to be brought out within the next week or so.  I am giving them a bit longer to see if things can be resolved.

 

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By Tim Vane
22nd Apr 2016 18:16

@Matt Stenson - PTP are owned by Iris, and have been for about 10 years.

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By Ajtms
24th Apr 2016 10:16

Keytime Software are also owned by Iris

 

When Drummohr moved to the cloud a month ago I phoned and emailed so many times that I simply gave up and moved to Taxcalc. At no time did Iris attempt to persuade me to use one of their other products, so I don't think their actions were deliberate and were instead total incompetence and short sightedness. Whatever the reason, the result was the same, an urgent need to change to Taxcalc after 15 happy years with Drummohr. As I have mentioned above, the Taxcalc licence cost me less than half the Drummohr licence; what a bargain. 

The other thing that nobody above has picked up is that Drummohr have an 0844 phone number, so check out your phone bills. You will be paying between 10p and 18p per minute to tell them about their failings!!! I nearly fell over when I checked my phone bill. I should really send a copy of the phone bill to Drummohr with their phone numbers highlighted and ask them to pay the bill, but I kind of know that they won't and it will not be worth the hassle. 

If Iris's Drummohr was concerned about the way they were treating their customers they would have written an apology letter by now and offered massive compensation, but the absence of these means they don't care.

 

  

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By girlofwight
24th Apr 2016 11:34

For those of us old enough to remember Freeway
For those of us old enough to remember Iris's purchase of Freeway PayPal, and the "support" afterwards in the first year of incentive driven EOY payroll filing it's the same again. Hour long call waits were not unusual.

I personally lost faith in Iris then.

We've used Drummohr for a little over 15 years, with concern when Iris took them over, but took the decision not to follow them into the cloud. Fortunately out license ends 30 April so it's more or less tax year aligned.

I'm glad, from reading above, I'm not the only one flummoxed by three weeks notice. I thought I had missed a communication from them months erlier - obviously not.

So, not sure about current Drummohr support, but my general feeling about Iris over a number of years is not warm.

We still use Compac accounts production, which is Keytime owned. I suspect time is running out in this, but we've just signed a three year contract which goes against my instinct but (a) it's very keenly priced - sub £400 a year - and there is a low cancellation fee of 20% of the two future years renewals if we did cancel. And, of course, if they make significant changes to the program then there will be constructive termination on their part anyway. Buys us time to look elsewhere for AP.

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By mabzden
24th Apr 2016 11:45

Is it just me...

.. or do one or two of the comments above sound a but "staged"?

One contributor only signed up for Aweb last week, and then wrote a long, gushing comment about how amazing his new software supplier is. But apparently he hadn't felt moved enough about any other accountancy issue to sign up for Aweb in the previous 10 years.

It all seems a bit odd...

 

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By Matt Stenson
25th Apr 2016 11:27

Staged?

I may only have signed up to Acocunting Web recently but that was because I Googled to see if anyone else was having the same problems I was having with Drummohr and came across this thread. I've looked at articles on here in the past many times but I had to actually sign up to Aweb to comment on this thread. After reading the comments by everyone else, I made the decision to change supplier after 12+ happy years with Drummohr. There was nothing staged about my comment, just heartfelt relief that I could make a start on the 1,000+ tax returns I have to do this year. Obviously,I have only just signed up with Taxflier so it is early days yet but so far, everything is working so much better than Drummohr. If that changes, I will definitely update my comments.

I suspect that some members of these forums have vested interests and biases but hopefully, not all new members of Accounting Web are accused of Staging comments

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By mabzden
25th Apr 2016 12:32

Welcome to the site

Matt Stenson wrote:

hopefully, not all new members of Accounting Web are accused of Staging comments

I think we have the right to be a little wary if you've only just discovered Aweb after 12+ years, and the first and only thing you do is plug a software provider (which, incidentally, you managed to do again in your rebuttal - although you got the name wrong).

Anyway, welcome to the site. I'm sure you'll go on to be a great Aweb member, and I look forward to reading your contributions on other matters.

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By carnmores
24th Apr 2016 11:49

hello girlofwight

I posted almost exactly the same sentiments a couple of weeks ago the Freeway change was a disaster, I sense that Iris is on the way out.  I believe that they have substantial borrowings , maybe they will have to  try and buy Taxfiler aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh

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By mabzden
24th Apr 2016 12:41

Still confused

carnmores wrote:

I sense that Iris is on the way out.  I believe that they have substantial borrowings , maybe they will have to  try and buy Taxfiler

You seem unusually keen for Iris to buy your software provider. Is that because they've done such a good job after buying Drummohr, PTP etc?

 

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By In a Daze
25th Apr 2016 13:10

TaxCalc

Taxcalc is very good for both tax returns and accounts production. I have never used any other software so cannot comment.

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By Tim Vane
25th Apr 2016 13:45

So it might be the worst product on the market and you would have no idea?

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By In a Daze
25th Apr 2016 15:04

Tax Calc

Tim Vane wrote:

So it might be the worst product on the market and you would have no idea?

I have tried a demo version of a few products including taxfiler. And did not get on with them maybe i should of mentioned that.

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By Tim Vane
25th Apr 2016 15:29

No, you didn't mention it. You said exactly the opposite. In any case, my comment was entirely tongue in cheek.

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By carnmores
26th Apr 2016 12:05

mabzden
Don't be stupid if it was meant as a joke I despair

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By DerekChaplin
26th Apr 2016 13:38

3 out of 10

We transferred on the day they arranged (after calling them 30 minutes later than arranged to see if they had forgotten us)

Transfer of data was smooth and seemed quite good. The web product looks ok and I found my way round it quite easily.

Now for the reasons why it has scored low:

1 - Speed - opening product is snail like - work around appears to be wait for a few moments, close the tab and try again - gets in quite quickly the second time!!

2 - I had a number of errors appear on CT600 returns that were in progress - 25 minute wait (per message, though in light of above comments, unlikely to be less!) on the helpline. Emailed support 12:42, had message that support had tried to call me around 18:30 - so 6 hours later. they were going to ring the following morning, eventually had an email 2 days later suggesting I tick a number of boxes which don't need ticking (all on the left of the first page and 1 somewhere else just for fun), then untick them again. by this time I had already deleted the year and restarted, this cleared the errors far better than their methods.

3 - Speed again - Click a box and wait..... seriously you need to wait some more....... and a bit longer - go have a cup of tea (not just make one, that's not enough time to select a box - drink it too)

4 - My boss could not sort how to add partners to a partnership - simple when you know how, but not the easiest to do the first time as hidden away, not in the tax return, but in the client database. She gave up and downloaded Taxcalc, setup a client from scratch first time and is very happy with this.

Looks like we're moving to Taxcalc soon. At least it is quick, looks pretty and is a fraction of the price of Drummohr/Iris Opencloud.

To those waiting for the upgrade, please use the time wisely - look at a few options whilst you wait, as the online demo version of Taxfiler has a client database about the size of ours, yet is many many many times quicker than Iris. I do not know why Iris is slow - we have line speeds of 19-20gb, so not exactly glacial, but the response on the tax returns in Iris is appalling.

 

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By mfbrown185
26th Apr 2016 14:05

Abject failure - update

Update to my initial post of 21/04/2016 re: Abject Failure

We have moved to Taxcalc and migrated our client database over from the old Drummohr desktop software files into Taxcalc easily using a CSV import. The labour intensive work is to set up capital allowances and input brought forward losses etc into Taxcalc (as these would have just been brought forward automatically in Drummohr).

But I can happily say Taxcalc will work for us, is half the price and appears logical.

Iris have contacted us to ask if we are willing to wait while they fix issues and address our concerns but - time is money and I need to get on with work. So we have parted company.

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By mabzden
26th Apr 2016 18:56

Other options

I feel bad interrupting the Taxfiler/TaxCalc love-in, but I've looked at both systems in the past.

With Taxflier (sorry, the above typo has stuck in my head now), I'd read all the hype in this section of Aweb and thought I couldn't possibly be looking at the same system. It looked like a basic online version of a small section of the tax return software I was using 15 years ago.

TaxCalc has been around longer, and does more things. But it looks all a bit Soviet era, and seemed to be an inferior alternative to the more sophisticated integrated systems out there.

So I would recommend any disgruntled Drummorh users ignore some of the comments above and take a careful look at the various options available.

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By Tim Vane
26th Apr 2016 18:37

I think you are right, you couldn't possibly be looking at the same system.

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By djcoulter
27th Apr 2016 12:58

Appalling Tyrants

Firmly 0

Iris are dictators forcing us onto a completely different system by the backdoor.

As far as I can see this is breach of contract -we paid for Drummohr for a year and it has been taken away with no prior notice, no choice, in fact no support to make the transition, and now unacceptably long waiting times for a help desk that just want to take a message and call you back. 

They said the transfer of data would be done for us and they would move all clients to the cloud - I am still waiting for that mess to get sorted.  And the cloud suite doesn't have the same comprehensive database that Tax Assist did - so half the data is missing.

They are talking about some form of goodwill gesture...wait and see because if that's a discount against next year's fees there really wont be any goodwill attached..............

 

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By johnjenkins
27th Apr 2016 16:29

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear

We went live on 11th April. Download prior to that went OK. Had problems but I think that was me finding my way round. Spent two days with dummy SA and Corp tax. Nearly 3 weeks down the line. 23 SA returns submitted, 12 refunds (CIS) already received. 2 CT returns all done and dusted with accounts imported from VT. It is slower than the desktop version and it certainly isn't an upgrade. I have another busy month with SA (CIS) returns then in June I will look at other products. My subscription ends at end of June so it will be interesting to see what I am charged. I think it was bad that we had no choice. I was originally with IRIS many years ago but then switched to Drummohr when IRIS became too expensive.

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By carnmores
28th Apr 2016 11:46

mabzden is in some sort of uninformed timewarp

Taxfiler is brilliant 

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By mabzden
28th Apr 2016 12:16

Not convinced...

That wasn't my reaction when I tried it out. I think my exact words were: "is that it???"

Anyway, we all have different software requirements and tastes, so one man's meat is another man's poison.

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By girlofwight
28th Apr 2016 13:04

Despite giving them notice and our contract running out Saturday, they rang up yesterday wanting to upgrade us.  Sigh.

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