Practice to industry

Practice to industry

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What advice would you give to a hypothetical accountant currently working in practice, who never has but wants to work in industry?

Would they be at a disadvantage not having trained in specific areas, what would they need to prepare for and what are the wage differences? 

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By thomas
15th Apr 2013 14:19

I moved from practice to a client!  Best job I ever had!  Client knew me. I knew how the accounts worked so there were no surprises for anyone.  I

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By sash100
15th Apr 2013 14:45

Practice all rounder

Some clients prefer those with practice experience as they have an all round knowledge.  I think if you ever decided to go into industry you would enjoy it.  I had a great 10 years and best time ever

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By jspeechley
15th Apr 2013 16:28

Depends on the practice & Industry

It's not set in stone but the move across is much easier if you move to a similar sized business.

A move from a small town practice to a huge company would be a huge culture shift. If you're in a smallish practice I would look at a solid SME as a first move. Once you're in industry it is then possible to move up the size's of business. [Equally, large practice to large customer].

I've made the move and it has 100% worked for me. I love the ability to look behind all the numbers, implement change and be part of something. I never really felt that in practice.

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By Steve Holloway
16th Apr 2013 08:40

I did it ...

small practice to £50m t/o IT company. The actual work should not be a problem as there is not really any major technical shift unless you go in to something very industry specific such as manufacturing. The culture shock can be quite large however. You will find a much stronger empahsis on reporting deadlines, month ends and budgets/forecasts. It is generally more 'buzzy' and in my experience much longer hours in an environment that is less paternalistic than the typical small practice. I spent 6 months wondering what the hell I had done but once you settle in you realise that you do have advantages over the home grown management accountants. In my my case I was able to see the bigger picture a little better in terms of translating the management accounts in to the overall corporate reporting context. I could also do double entry which most of my colleagues seemed to guess at!

Obviously I came back to practice eventually and in my view there are only so many month-ends that you can do and still give a damn!

 

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
16th Apr 2013 10:17

No Definitive answer

I have worked 13 years in practice and 12 in industry so have sat on both sides but more likely to come down on side of Steve above.

My experience in practice was with non audit clients ie up to £4 - £5 Million turnover companies whcih I really enjoyed.

I was poached by one of these firms to expend the company the first few years were great but 10 years later the company is now a £30m company and although there is a few extra girls there is only me who qualified in the office and position hugely stressful and working 60 hours per week for no extra money. My reward for finishing March figures was to crack straight on with Aprils. I missed the variety you have in practice where every day you could be doing a different job or visiting a client. Sometimes I could spend 12 hours without barely leaving my seat. I also found that the relationship with the cleint changed when I went from being an external advisor to employee as he seemed to think he now owned me but that could be exclusive to the guy I worked for.

Financially it worked out for me as I moved into industry at the start of the boom time and enjoyed some good bonuses in early days which I tucked away in property investments.

I recently took the step to walk away from industry and start my own practice up which I am enjoying and things are about going to plan. Although I would not rule out a return if the right offer came along.

 

 

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By Robjoy
18th Apr 2013 11:25

Communication and priorities

From the SME client side, but as an experienced bookkeeper, I'd say the culture shock would be about communication and priorities. Other answers have touched on this, but in most SMEs you'd be talking to people who have no clue how double-entry bookkeeping works and have no interest in finding out, cannot really understand their own published accounts, can't see any use for a trial balance, and don't see why they can't keep their accounts exactly as they wish. FRSS? GAAP? Are they texting shorthand? Make it a rule to strike the following words from your vocabulary when communicating with the business owners, unless you are absolutely certain they know what you mean: debit, credit, prepayment, accrual, reconcile, variance . . you get my drift.

Then there's why the business employs you - what they believe you are there for. They obviously won't think your priorities are just about keeping up with statutory reporting and delivering accurate accounts to the auditor (nor should they), and they're quite likely to argue about what goes into those anyway. Management reporting, forecasting, cash flow, chasing debtors and fending off creditors, answering questions (instantly!) like "How much did we make on that big job for Bloggs?", whether or not you have software or the record-keeping to make it possible. And when you ask for software, or changes in record-keeping you may be told that as the accounts department doesn't earn any money for the business it can't expect unnecessary expense!

Who me? Cynical from years of being a bookkeeper? Why do you say that?

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By Ken Howard
18th Apr 2013 11:49

Did it, didn't last, returned to practice

I was working for a practice, we had a client that was growing rapidly (design and factory), I started going out to do their monthly accounts, then forecasts, as well as the annual accounts and audit.  Job got so big, it went from one day a month to one day a week, then sometimes 2/3 days per week. Eventually client decided they needed "in house" and I was approached before they advertised the job.  I took it and got quite an impressive pay rise.

But from day 1, I realised it was a major mistake.  It was completely different and I was bombarded with requests/demands from all over the place.  I got sucked into all kinds of unfamiliar areas, such as production processes, overseas branches, etc., and really struggled to find the time to deal with it, not to mention not having any time to deal with the management accounts etc that still needed doing.

In theory, it should have been interesting and rewarding.  In any other situation, doing new things and dealing with new challenges would have really suited me.  

But, it was the severe stress and over-work that ruined it all for me.  The company was doubling in size every six months in terms of staff numbers and turnover, but it wasn't capitalised, so cash flow was a constant nightmare, fobbing off Peter to pay Paul etc., they were also building a new factory as well as setting up overseas offices and service branches. The owners were husband and wife whose marriage was breaking down, so that was another source of stress.

Finally, I escaped and got back into practice.  I think it would probably have been a do-able job if they'd taken me in a year or two earlier before it all took off, or if they'd taken on another person, so that there was one to do the financial accounts and another to do the management accounts, or even to keep the old firm of accountants to do the monthly accounts, but for one person, it wasn't feasible.  I later found out that my replacement had suffered a nervous breakdown and that the managing director brought in by the H&W to run the firm after their marriage breakdown had suffered a severe stroke!

So my advice would be for anyone wanting to take the plunge, to make sure that you're going into a fairly steady industry role - i.e. a company that is maybe growing but at a comfortable and controlled pace.  I'd say that for a company that is rapidly expanding, a novice from practice isn't the right person and that they'd need someone with plenty of industry experience to cope with the challenges that rapid expansion brings.

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By B Roberts
18th Apr 2013 11:57

Agree

Ken Howard wrote:

So my advice would be for anyone wanting to take the plunge, to make sure that you're going into a fairly steady industry role - i.e. a company that is maybe growing but at a comfortable and controlled pace.  I'd say that for a company that is rapidly expanding, a novice from practice isn't the right person and that they'd need someone with plenty of industry experience to cope with the challenges that rapid expansion brings.

I agree with the above.

Having worked for a similar company for a number of years it can get get very difficult - not so much the technical aspects, but just keeping on top of the day to day transaction processing.

Eg. if you have 2 or 3 assistants, what do you do if one is on holiday and the other one calls in sick ? - the payroll still needs to be run, sales invoices need to be raised, cash needs to be chased, suppliers need to be paid etc. etc. on top of actually managing cashflow, producing management accounts etc.

In the meantime, the owner is not so worried about such detail - they just expect that it is all done.

 

 

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By B Roberts
18th Apr 2013 11:50

Depends

It really depends on you as an individual - your experience, skill set, motivation for looking, what do you hope to achieve etc.

I have only ever worked in "industry" but during my time I have been employed at a very large Plc Financial Services company through various others to a privately owned manufacturing SME.

As you can imagine, the roles and culture etc. can vary considerably.

eg. I am "guessing" that as a first move out of practice, somebody trained as a Big 4 Auditor would find the transition easier in a Group Accountant role in a Plc rather than as an FD/FC in a small SME.

 

What type of clients have you worked with, and what is your motivation for moving out of practice ?

 

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By Gilly
18th Apr 2013 11:59

It all depends on

Which sector, what size of business, the seniority of the role etc.  I did the opposite, and found it to be completely different.

As an industrial accountant you become an expert on that one company. You can lose touch with changes in tax law and accounting standards if they don't apply to your firm.  I found I was spending 90% of my time managing, and little on hands-on accountancy.. I was responsible for the accounting and financial control, but once you get procedures and controls in place the job is more or less done. You do the same thing depending on the day of week or time of month.  There is often a battle between different departments.  'Budget, you say? What's that then?'

On the plus side, there are challenges in management reporting, forecasting and cash management that can really keep you on your toes. You can dig deep into trends, and see improvements much more readily than working remotely for a client. 

Skills in management information systems and cash control are crucial. 

 

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By russdickinson
18th Apr 2013 13:46

Just done that

I moved from practice into my current industry role (as Finance Manager) 15 months ago and am loving it.  Didn't realise how much I disliked practice (Accounts & Audit Senior) until I got out...

It is a different expereince for each person, and depends on the respective companies you work / will work for. My old employer was not the best, whereas my new one is the complete opposite. Is that because it's industry? - not necessarily and as the others mention, the pressures are different, and the working environment is naturally going to be different.

My main disadvantage when switching was my lack of Payroll/HR experience.  I now supervise the payroll process, but didn't know much about it before I started here.  I had audited payroll and could do a manual payroll calc, but in terms of running a apyroll I'd done nothing.  So I guess I could've tried to get more experience in that area before looking...

I priced myself at the low end of the pay scale they were offering as I appreciated my lack of experience made me less appealing.  However, I knew I could do the basics of the job, so felt confident in asking for that.  Already, my pay has gone up, and I foresee it happening again as my experience grows.

Hope that helps :-)

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By Jo-Anne
18th Apr 2013 23:46

It is what you make of it

I made the move many years ago and have never regreted it.I have worked for a variety of businesses - SME's, large not for profits, large entities. Th eroles have been diverse frombeing a member of a large accounting department to chief financial controller to project work.  

As per comments above the deadlines can be constant, particularly in larger organisations. They can be daily, weekly, fortnightly, monthly, quarterly & annually. In and around that you need to fit the projects which keep the systems up to date and efficient. So you have to be very organised and plan ahead.

The other difference is that professional services firms are generally hot houses for people. In general the staff are well trained, even the PA's. You will be suprised by how well you are supported right now. 

In commerce you are often working with people who have no idea what you are talking about or even why it is important. For one business, the cash flow had to be dumbed down to "where did the money come from" and "where did it go to". Their principle focus was on the tax paid line.You will need to communicate clearly and at a the various levels the other people in the organisation understand.

Cash is king, particularly for smaller businesses, and you will be expected to keep it under control. It may even be a significant part of your role and take up much of your time. Like housekeeping your role in this area will often not be noticed until it isn't done.

Like anything it is what you make of it. The experiences can be wide ranging and diverse. Accounting may end up only being a minor part of the role, even in larger organsiations where you can be become involved with project work. There is an enormous amount of satisfaction in helping a business to grow.

I am now working in a an accounting practice as their business manager and looking at how it works I'm glad I have had the different experiences. I'm not sure I would have coped with the sameness of the work over a long period of time. There is however a lot of benefit in staying in practice if you become a partner/ business owner in a successful firm.

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