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Ranking Female Staff

Ranking Female Staff

Some of the male staff in PWC's Irish office have started to rank female staff by their looks using e-mails to keep score. The partner in charge of HR said "We are taking this matter extremely seriously".

Presumably he wants to ensure that there is no cheating.

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11th Nov 2010 16:19

How times have changed

We used to do this in the 1990s, but used pen and paper. It was harmless even innocent, but we did have too much time on our hands!

-- Kind regards Andy

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By mwngiol
11th Nov 2010 16:22

I would never do such a thing!

But only because I know I'd get an embarrassingly low score if the women in the office did the same!

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11th Nov 2010 16:25

Link

The pictures are here -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328718/PricewaterhouseCoopers-staff-rate-attractiveness-female-colleagues-viral-email.html

........ personally I don't rank any of them particularly highly - but maybe thats just my age :)

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By blok
11th Nov 2010 17:30

.

Were they ranked out of ten?  I would give them one ;)

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By ACDWebb
11th Nov 2010 17:41

Steady now

this thread looks set to end in tears, so IBTL or possibly IBTD

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By SteveOH
11th Nov 2010 18:58

What's the problem?

The women shouldn't worry their pretty little heads about it.

PS Bottom row, second from the left gets my vote.

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11th Nov 2010 19:25

Steve

 

PS Bottom row, second from the left gets my vote.

Posted by SteveOH on Thu, 11/11/2010 - 18:58

 

When's your opticians appointment Steve ?

By the way, anyone else noticed how many blondes there are (I wonder how many are REAL blondes?).

 

ps

At my age I'll settle for whichever one I can catch - which looks the slowest runner :)

 

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By SteveOH
11th Nov 2010 23:40

CD

When's your opticians appointment Steve ?

What do you mean? She's georgous.

I'm sending my CV to PwC tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

By the way, I'm surprised we haven't had any replies from our female AWeb colleagues telling us guys that we are all deluded, sexist dinosaurs:) Come on sisters.

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12th Nov 2010 00:06

Dinosaur? Moi ?

By the way, I'm surprised we haven't had any replies from our female AWeb colleagues telling us guys that we are all deluded, sexist dinosaurs:)

 

Posted by SteveOH on Thu, 11/11/2010 - 23:40

 

I dont need telling - I know I am - and if it upsets the likes of Harriet Harman then thats a bonus :)

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12th Nov 2010 08:29

Is it just me...

... or are there only about 3 women on that page and they just keep chainging their hair?  I have never seen such a generic looking bunch of people in my life!

And I'm a mere 28, so I should still be at the 'older women are attractive' age.

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12th Nov 2010 08:41

#Sigh#

I WAS going to rank them but I am overcome by professionalism so I will leave it.  Suffice to say I prefer the natural looking ones (3 and 5 spring to mind) over the ones who look like they have a tanning booth or botox machine at home...

If you want to see some stunners try KPMG in Nottingham, there is a blonde there...  Needless to say I sometimes wish the taxman would come after me in a sufficiently in depth way that would mean I need to meet with her... #Comes over all flustered#

 

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12th Nov 2010 08:53

I can't believe...

.... that I am the only bloke that thinks this is quite disgraceful, a deeply offensive act that belittles and humiliates the women concerned. I hope PwC realise what kind of people they are employing, then looks at the image they attempt to portray, which is quite different! Not that PwC are that much different from others, but at least others don't make a song and dance trying to make themselves out to be something they aren't, though if PwC are true to their principles then they should sack those who think this is somehow clever.

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12th Nov 2010 10:05

Trevor

 I can't believe...... that I am the only bloke that thinks this is quite disgraceful, a deeply offensive act that belittles and humiliates the women concerned.

 

Posted by Trevor Scott on Fri, 12/11/2010 - 08:53

 

 

Maybe you're the "only bloke" who has been brainwashed by the politically correct muppets who infest our society nowdays.

Ask yourself a question - why do women wear make up, take great care with their hair, pluck their eyebrows, have botox injections, spend hours ensuring that their clothes are "just right", etc, etc.?  They do it, quite simply, to attract the opposite sex.  So how then can they justify complaining when what they have worked so hard to achieve - has the desired effect ?

Talk about hypocrisy.

 

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By mwngiol
12th Nov 2010 10:13

Reactions

I can understand the women being peeved. There is a difference between making themselves look their best which is more to do with making themselves feel good than attracting the opposite sex, and being compared with colleagues on the basis of looks.

But the story linked to says something along the lines of the women are being offered ongoing support to help them deal with what happened. That is a major over reaction to say the least! 

The employers should give the blokes a warning. The women should man up and get over it. Then life, the universe and everything can carry on as before.

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12th Nov 2010 10:16

Hear hear!

I knew it was only a matter of time before C_D went off on one and I agree! Women are just playing their part of the game by dressing up, and men are playing their part by ogling and giving women the attention they are asking for by doing what they do. Women ask for compliments and attention by wearing suggestive and provocative makeup/clothes/hairstyles etc. I doubt any woman can say she wears that lowcut top, skinny trousers because they are comfortable, or stillitos because they are practical.

If you aren't playing the game, wear a poncho.

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By mwngiol
12th Nov 2010 10:23

Clegganator

I didn't read the part of the story saying that the women were walking round the office in bikini tops and hotpants!!

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12th Nov 2010 10:28

Thought police

It's only a matter of time before technology stops this kind of thing, even scoring people in your head will be banned.

Anyway the whole thing seems to have gotten well out of hand. The male staff were wrong to do it. It shouldn't have made it to the outside world either; now we are all scoring these ladies whether deliberate or not. 

Irrespctive of their attractiveness, and i won't comment on that, they are obviously bright enough to get through the generic PWC filter at interview.

The funny bit in the Daily Mail story was the mother who complained that her daughter wasn't on the list. Whatever you think of the political correctness of the whole thing the mother's complaint is genuinely funny on several levels.    But maybe that just says something about me.

 

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12th Nov 2010 10:29

Perhaps I just imagined that bit...

But the underlying truth remains; women dress provocatively.

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12th Nov 2010 10:31

No win situation for women

If they get themselves 'dolled up' they are doing it to entice men into ogling them (I don't believe this but obviously some men do!)

If they 'power dress' they have p***s envy!

If they don't care so much about their appearance they get derogatory remarks from the men (and some women)!

What is the solution????????

Admit it guys, some of you enjoy belittling women and disguise it as a joke, and if we protest we are just being too sensitive, and it couldn't possibly be that you are insensitive   ;)

PS. is there a gallery of the men for us women to rate?

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12th Nov 2010 10:42

"The funny bit in the Daily Mail story was the mother who compla

I'm sorry but that just made me laugh out loud.

What a shame that PwC have nothing important to deal with.

 

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12th Nov 2010 10:50

Phil

I, too, thought that was funny.

At the end of the day, we are all just 'playing the game'. We conform to what society expects, and society expects women to look beautiful (or the best they can manage). Men are expected to appreciate the efforts we go to.

I personally think revealing clothing has no place in the workplace, but if a business allows it, who am I to interfere?

Some women have learned that advertising their sexuality brings them an advantage, so is it the woman who is dumb, or the man whose brain turns to mush?

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12th Nov 2010 10:53

Actually...
... many women wear makeup, certain clothes or jewellery because they wish to look good and feel good. They are not necessarily tarts or “up for whatever”.I quite agree that women who show cleavage or thigh etc are going too far, also that there are too many women who either don’t have (if they ever) the decent/moral standards many people in society would consider respectful, tasteful or professional, but even so it doesn’t mean that they aren’t human beings who should be respected in themselves. A woman who has gone to the hair dresser, done her make-up, put on a little jewellery and a nice top to look make a good impression for the important professional photograph that will be used for a year or two, is not saying treat me like a non-person and tart me around the office for your cheap thrills.It strikes me as rather odd that in differing threads we can have a situation whereby one set of people should be automatically respected and another automatically disrespected. PwC, as a responsible employer, should protect their employees, and as one person often points out the legal side I will point out that they have a legal duty to protect their employees who have been publically humiliated.Shirley, there isn’t a gallery, but there is a dragon and Leonard Rossiter! Doesn't that say it all!Having said all that, in about 1994 I came across a Norwegian economics Professor who had been offered a job with Anderson's. One of the first things she said was that she was surprised to be offered the job because she wasn't attractive and all the other people in the team were very attractive (at least physically), she was quite intimidated. There is something very wrong when firms, decade after decade, hire a disproportionate number of people who are attractive. You coud almost get the impression that they aren't interesting in achieving excellence, just a marketable product!    

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By blok
12th Nov 2010 10:57

Shirley

Hi Shirley, Ok you did ask.... so I have just taken a picture of myself. 

http://s1.hubimg.com/u/1464884_f260.jpg

This is how I dress to work every day.

What do you think?

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12th Nov 2010 10:58

Or...

... that the majority of candidates in that area are attractive?

 

And here's my pic

http://www.hahahaimontheinternet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/shane-macgowan.jpg

Seriously though, Mr Stokdyk who posts articles on here is the absolute spitting image of my dad when he was younger, so that should give you an idea of what I look like!

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12th Nov 2010 11:04

blok

Would you like a job?

Forget that ... i don't think I could afford you!

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12th Nov 2010 11:15

"Support" ??????
No win situation for women  .......Admit it guys, some of you enjoy belittling women and disguise it as a joke, and if we protest we are just being too sensitive, and it couldn't possibly be that you are insensitive   ;)

PS. is there a gallery of the men for us women to rate?

 

Posted by ShirleyM on Fri, 12/11/2010 - 10:31

 

So, tell me Shirley, why are the Chippendales so popular?  Is that "belittling" to men ?

Admit it - havent you ever made similar remarks about some male film star or football player?

Of course you have - it's part of the whole natural male-female attraction thing.

What I see in this is not a terrible "crime" by those who did it, but, a terrible over reaction by the pc brigade.  To suggest that they need "support" to get over this "ordeal" beggars belief. If something so unimportant "traumatises" them then they really shouldnt be allowed out alone - or could it possibly be that the thought of compensation and maybe a bit of preferential treatment has crossed their minds.

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12th Nov 2010 11:27

Chippendales v women in the workplace

Isn't that a bit like saying 'some women are strippers, so it is ok to treat all women like strippers'?

I have already said, we are all 'playing the game'.

Like most things, moderation is the key. Sometimes things get out of hand and it becomes disrespectful, ie. by saying women dress provocatively for one reason only. That is disrespectful, totally wrong, and basically tarring everyone with the same brush when we are all individuals.

CD - I don't want to cross swords with you. I respect you for the simple fact that you know your comments will offend, and openly admit it. I just don't have to agree with you, and I wish to add my personal comments from the female perspective.

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12th Nov 2010 12:25

"men were men and women knew their place".

CD - I don't want to cross swords with you. I respect you for the simple fact that you know your comments will offend, and openly admit it. I just don't have to agree with you, and I wish to add my personal comments from the female perspective.

 

Posted by ShirleyM on Fri, 12/11/2010 - 11:27

 

I openly admit that when I was young, "men were men and women knew their place".  Things have changed a great deal, first we had the "bra burning" brigade and the "rights" brigade. Now we have the "anit-discrimination" brigade, and lets be honest, we are now at the ridiculous point where everyone has "rights" except it seems ordinary healthy white hetrosexual males.  

Ok, maybe this bit of ill considered fun, and I believe thats all it started as, maybe went a bit too far.  But lets be honest, its only an electonic version of the kind of conversation most red blooded young males might have with their mates over a cigarrette and cup of coffee.  And I rather suspect that similar conversations about new male members of staff take place between the women.

What i cannot accept is that these women are somehow "traumatised" and require "support".  What complete rubbish. 

I really do think we are at the point where "some animals are more equal than others". 

 

 

 

 

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12th Nov 2010 12:34

err...

Through no fault of their own, they've been treat as sexual objects in their own firm and profession, had their pictures spread around the world for cheap public gratification and amusement....I can quite understand how they'd be traumatised....but I can also believe hthat some people could love the attention.

 From the PwC code of ethics ... (my highlighting)

http://www.pwc.com/ie/en/code-of-conduct/assets/code_of_conduct_2009.pdf

Summary of Ethics questions to consider1. Is it against PwC or professional standards?2. Does it feel right?3. Is it legal?4. Will it reflect negatively on you or PwC?5. Who else could be affected by this (others in PwC, clients, you, etc.)?6. Would you be embarrassed if others knew you took this course of action?7. Is there an alternative action that does not pose an ethical conflict?8. How would it look in the newspapers?9. What would a reasonable person think?10. Can you sleep at night? 

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12th Nov 2010 14:10

I'm so glad that I left large practice in 1993 never to return

That "PwC code of ethics" has given me the biggest laugh of all in this thread.

The international practice that I was in had just started to employ personnel officers (now laughingly called "HR") when I left. I never understood why.

Small practice is good. We do not have to deal with all this PC guff.

 

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12th Nov 2010 14:19

Pathetic

Would there be such an outrage if female members of staff had ranked how good looking the males were?

No of course not so what's the difference?

In a lot of the offices I have worked in both the males and the females have come up with their own league table and it is a bit of banter. Obviously, nobody was stupid enough to put it in an email where people may see and take offence but it seems stupid that promising young accountants may have their careers tarnished for something so trivial.

P.S. I would say that top row second from the left wins by a country mile.

 

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12th Nov 2010 14:34

Who wrote that, and why ?

That "PwC code of ethics" has given me the biggest laugh of all in this thread.

 

 Posted by Phil Rees on Fri, 12/11/2010 - 14:10

 

Why do they need a "code of ethics" ?  This is just another example of someone in their "Human Resouces" department making a job for themselves to justify their meaningless existance.

 

 

P.S. I would say that top row second from the left wins by a country mile.

 

Posted by JackJoshua on Fri, 12/11/2010 - 14:19

 

Jack, I have got to say that none of them is anywhere near as attractive as my PA/Secretary (and the fact she's standing next to me with a steaming hot cup of coffee in her hand has nothing to do with that comment .... honest :)

Seriously, I think they are all quite plain and nothing special at all.

 

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12th Nov 2010 15:02

Actually....

....not so long ago there was  case of a woman who did something similar, that is what makes it so hard to believe .....

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235129/Deloitte-girl-quits-sending-email-asking-colleagues-vote-offices-attractive-men.html

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12th Nov 2010 15:22

Too much
Actually.......not so long ago there was  case of a woman who did something similar, that is what makes it so hard to believe .....

 

 

Posted by Trevor Scott on Fri, 12/11/2010 - 15:02

 

 

And she lost her job because of it ?

No wonder accountants get a bad reputation - the senior partners and management of some of the larger firms really are too pompous for their own good.  Its a bit of fun that went wrong - get over it.  

Anyone in my office complaining that they felt "humiliated" or "traumatised" by what is harmless banter would actually find that i would suggest that maybe THEY should go and find another position.  There is far too much of this pc nonsence and firms trying to turn employees into robotic little drones. What truly boring lives these people must lead if they get upset over a bit of fun.

What I find incredible nowdays is that peoiple get all uptight over something like this yet a bunch of muslim extremists can burn poppies and hurl vile abuse at us and we are supposed to simply ignore that.  In fact it's far more likely that whoever started this email will be arrested than it is that one of the poppy burners will be arrested. Is it me (it probably is) or are our priorities totally screwed up in this country ?

 

 

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By pawncob
12th Nov 2010 17:31

Stirred up

The only things that get AW contributors stirred up are dolly birds, the PC brigade and Muslims. 37 posts and counting.

If only we could find a PC Muslim in a bikini, we'd all be happy.

 

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By Monsoon
12th Nov 2010 22:16

Guys please...

...stop reading the Daily Fail. I expect better of you all.

Many thanks

:)

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12th Nov 2010 22:23

Monsoon

...stop reading the Daily Fail. I expect better of you all.

Many thanks

:)

 

Posted by Monsoon on Fri, 12/11/2010 - 22:16

 

Actually, the story is in several papers including the Express and even the Sun - so if PWC intended to keep it quiet they made a total mess of it.  

Wht would you "expect better of us" - after all, we're just men.

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By Monsoon
12th Nov 2010 22:38

But you're the ones...

... quoting the Fail instead of news sites.  ;)

CD, I just happen to despise the Mail. I live in a rose tinted world where everyone else feels the same, and doesn't read it :)

 

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13th Nov 2010 00:27

All but one

CD, I just happen to despise the Mail. I live in a rose tinted world where everyone else feels the same, and doesn't read it :)

 Posted by Monsoon on Fri, 12/11/2010 - 22:38

 

With the internet why read only one paper?  I read them all -except of course the Mirror - I draw the line at comics for the mentally challenged.

 

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15th Nov 2010 11:41

My daily dose...

... of Andy Capp is all that gets me through some days, and Shelly Vision is the next best thing to Harry Hill, so the Mirror isn't all bad :)

The rest I use to line my cats litter tray.

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16th Nov 2010 10:43

A female perspective from Going Concern

I have tried to overlook it, but two features of this thread concern me... First the idea that political correctness, women and Muslims are what really interests our members. Please tell me it's not true!

And second the thought that I might be a doppelganger for Constantly Confused's dad.

Meanwhile, I thought you might be interested in the commentary from Adrienne Gonzalez from GoingConcern.com on The PwC Hottie Scandal - A Female Perspective.

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16th Nov 2010 11:08

PC

 have tried to overlook it, but two features of this thread concern me... First the idea that political correctness, women and Muslims are what really interests our members. Please tell me it's not true!

Posted by jstokdyk on Tue, 16/11/2010 - 10:43

 

I think so called "Political correctness" is something that can't be ignored as it affects our daily lives in so many ways.  Let's face it things like the smoking ban are driven by a form of political correctness with anti smoking groups going on about their "rights".  (A "right" which has actually destroyed many pubs).  Open a door for a lady nowdays and half the time you risk being glared at like some kind of neandertal - of course dont open the door for a lady and the odds are you will be described as ignorant and "not a gentleman" - so we cant win.  What the pc brigade fail to grasp is that by demanding "positive discrimination" IN FAVOUR of some group or other, they are effectively demanding discrimination AGAINST everyone else.

As for muslims, or more precisely extremist muslims, this again is linked to "political correctness" and another demonstration of the double standards, particularly amongst our police forces.  As stated in another thread the burning of poppies on armistice day was grossly offensive to millions of people yet was totally ignored by police officers who were clearly afraid to arrest these idiots for fear of being acused of being "racist" etc.  I wonder if they would stand idly by if a group held up banners saying "death to muslims" and burnt copies of the Koran ?  This is just another example of the double standards in society today. 

These things affect everyone everyday in one way or another.

 

 

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16th Nov 2010 12:24

Personal experience

Open a door for a lady nowdays and half the time you risk being glared at like some kind of neandertal - of course dont open the door for a lady and the odds are you will be described as ignorant and "not a gentleman" - so we cant win.  

 

Posted by cymraeg_draig on Tue, 16/11/2010 - 11:08

 

I hold the door open for everyone, regardless of sex. Personally, I think the ingratitude and ignorance, and the 'me, me, me attitude', is a sign of the times.

PS. I also get really annoyed with drivers who cannot be bothered to use an indicator, and this probably encompasses 90% of the people on the roads. I am maybe a little old fashioned, but I was taught that courtesy and consideration for others costs nothing, and it makes everyones life a little easier and a lot more pleasant.

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07th Dec 2010 09:52

@CD

Ask yourself instead why these bright and ambitious young women have worked hard to get good degrees and win good jobs at the height of the worst recession for 30 years. Perhaps it's because they want to be judged on their merits rather than their appearances?

One of the nice things about working with young graduates is their idealism and enthusiasm. It's a shame to see that idealism tarnished a few weeks into their first jobs.

Having said that, I would be sorry to see their silly young male colleagues sacked. I think we can all remember some of the truly stupid things we and our contemporaries did as trainees and be grateful for the exasperated tolerance and second chances we received .

Some disciplinary action is appropriate but I hope that the PwC partners will confine themselves to the HR equivalent of a clout round the ear rather than termination with prejudice.

 

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07th Dec 2010 10:17

naomi2000

One of the nice things about working with young graduates is their idealism and enthusiasm. It's a shame to see that idealism tarnished a few weeks into their first jobs..

 

Posted by naomi2000 on Tue, 07/12/2010 - 09:52

 

Isn't that the whole point?

They claim to be "traumatised" and to need "support" to get over their "ordeal".

They are fresh out of university - are they really claiming that they are traumatised by this? What university did they go to?

Ok these guys went a bit too far. Every one of us compares others and decides which are the most attractive, the most sexy, the most intelligent etc. Women do it just the same as men do.  The mistake these guys made was formalising that process instead of keeping it for gossip over a pint.

Someone from management should have had a quiet private word with them and said "dont be so bloody daft next time". Instead, because of "political correctness" and all the rest of the corporate drivel they have blown it up out of all proportion, virtually invited these women to sue for compensation, and made their company a laughing stock.  Their management arent very bright are they.

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07th Dec 2010 12:27

Trauma

They claim to be "traumatised" and to need "support" to get over their "ordeal". 

 Posted by cymraeg_draig on Tue, 07/12/2010 - 10:17

I think anything in the news needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. In any case, most claims of trauma relate to a monetary claim for vast sums of money as compensation!

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