Referral from MDTP

Strange

Didn't find your answer?

Whilst I was consuming a quiet pint MDTP sent over a customer with a question our hero couldn't answer.

The taxpayer has 2 state pensions UK and Italian and has done his SAR using HMRC software for several years without a problem.

This year however when he tried to post the Italian pension the system rejected him with the comment "you do not have to complete a return"

This he cannot understand because the joint pension income is over £18000 with no tax deducted at source

Has anyone come across this ??

Replies (13)

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By Duggimon
18th Aug 2021 10:59

It just means HMRC have taken him out of self assessment, which is something they do fairly regularly, even when said person needs to be in self assessment.

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By bernard michael
18th Aug 2021 11:32

Duggimon wrote:

It just means HMRC have taken him out of self assessment, which is something they do fairly regularly, even when said person needs to be in self assessment.

A agree that's what's happened but HMRC must be barking. This poor chap has paid taxes to them every year after submitting his SAR. As it's the taxpayers responsibility to ensure they declare their income and pay their taxes what's he meant to do ? (don't suggest use me!!)

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Replying to bernard michael:
By Duggimon
18th Aug 2021 12:19

Either call them and get them to reinstate the SA record (the switching off of it will have been automated and they'll likely fix it over the phone) or send in a paper return.

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Replying to Duggimon:
By petersaxton
18th Aug 2021 12:21

You can still submit a tax return electronically even if HMRC haven't asked for one - at least with third party software.

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Replying to petersaxton:
By Duggimon
18th Aug 2021 12:33

And if you've got a big rocket you can go to the moon.

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Replying to petersaxton:
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By Wanderer
18th Aug 2021 12:37

petersaxton wrote:

You can still submit a tax return electronically even if HMRC haven't asked for one - at least with third party software.

Yes, you can, but HMRC no longer capture them if it hasn't been shown as issued.
You need to contact HMRC, ask them to 'issue' one, then file it.
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Replying to Wanderer:
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By bernard michael
18th Aug 2021 14:00

Wanderer wrote:

petersaxton wrote:

You can still submit a tax return electronically even if HMRC haven't asked for one - at least with third party software.

Yes, you can, but HMRC no longer capture them if it hasn't been shown as issued.
You need to contact HMRC, ask them to 'issue' one, then file it.


So once again the poor taxpayer is having to run rings to satisfy HMRC stupidity
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Replying to Wanderer:
Caroline
By accountantccole
18th Aug 2021 15:45

Are you sure? - I have a client who keeps being told they don't need to do a return, we have kept filing as they have a small refund each year. Refunds are being processed OK.
(Filing via our software)

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Replying to accountantccole:
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By Wanderer
18th Aug 2021 15:59

It used to work fine however based on what has been reported on here & recent experience, Yes.

Somebody reported a policy change within the past year.

This was reported back in November 2017 by HMRC, possibly they are only just enforcing it:-
"Clients will not receive a return or a notice to file if we have told them that they are no longer required to send us returns. If you want to send us a return, even though your client has a Unique Taxpayer Reference, they need to re-register for SA by following the guidance at www.gov.uk/log-in-file-self-assessment-tax-return."

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Replying to Wanderer:
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By Wanderer
18th Aug 2021 16:03

Also they are now saying:-

HMRC wrote:
If you did not file a tax return last year
You must register for Self Assessment before using this service if:

you’re filing for the first time
you’ve sent a tax return in the past but did not send one last tax year

https://www.gov.uk/log-in-file-self-assessment-tax-return
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Replying to accountantccole:
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By bernard michael
19th Aug 2021 09:26

accountantccole wrote:

Are you sure? - I have a client who keeps being told they don't need to do a return, we have kept filing as they have a small refund each year. Refunds are being processed OK.
(Filing via our software)


The problem is he isn't a client (not do I want him as one) and has been using HMRC software for several years successfully but now it won't accept his Italian pension and tells him he doesn't have to file a SAR
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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
18th Aug 2021 14:18

Re the "non capture" issue, I wont how many returns are filed and no-one notices the non-capture, the tax payer doesn't get a bill and forgets about it.

Must be in the millions if not tens of million of pounds of unpaid tax as a result of that bonkers rule. Agents might not notice if they don't bother to check capture, which I am sure many dont once they have a filing receipt.

Make for a very interesting FTT case.

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By gillybean04
18th Aug 2021 17:52

My first guess would be declaring the Italian pension on the UK pension income page. If the nincompooter has been told there is only UK pension income, it would think there is no need for them to complete a return and remove them.

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