Residence query

To prove no of days presence in UK.

Didn't find your answer?

I 'd like to prove the no of days presence in UK in order to pass the SRT. I can get 10 yrs immigration record from Hong Kong Gov. Could  I use it to show hmrc that I didn't leave HK for more than required days to meet SRT? 

I need to file a non resident tax return, but I didn't tell hmrc when I left about 7 yrs ago. I am just afraid they will ask  for many proves. I would be very appreciated  for your help.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Replies (24)

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Scooby
By gainsborough
10th Feb 2022 17:52

OP, you say you "need" to file a return - is this because HMRC have issued you with one or you have established that you need to do so using the HMRC checker https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-tax-return?

How many days were you in the UK for 20/21?

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Replying to gainsborough:
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By Hercule168
10th Feb 2022 22:59

Thanks for sending me the link. I came UK to work for a small project and the company paid about 5000 pounds into my Hong kong account for the job. I stayed in UK for 14 days and I didn't work full time to meet the third automatic oversea test.

Could I use the immigration record to show that I was only in UK for 14 days if they questioned me about the non resident status? I m holding a British passport so that they didn't stamp on it when I came and left UK. Thank you for your help.

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By Hercule168
10th Feb 2022 23:05

How often do they ask the proves for the number of day presence in UK when files a tax return? Thank you.

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By Tax Dragon
11th Feb 2022 06:59

What's the point of your question? Complete your Tax Return correctly (ie based on fact) and you will not need to worry about 'proves'.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Hercule168
11th Feb 2022 07:14

Thanks for your advice. I will complete the tax return correctly, but would they challenge my non-residency status and ask me to prove the no of days in UK? Since, I didn't tell them when I left and my record is still UK resident.

That why I just try to see whether my immigration record from HK can be accepted by the HRMC. I can only think of this evidence to show I were not in UK to meet the SRT. Thank you!

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Replying to Hercule168:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Feb 2022 07:23

What's the worry? The year you are filing for? The year you left? Years before that? The intervening years since you left? If you've always paid your taxes then there's nothing to fret about, whatever questions they may ask. Just submit your Return and get on with life.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Hercule168
11th Feb 2022 07:54

My worry is that HMRC stated that people must report to them when they left,but I didn't know until now so that they may treat me as UK resident and asked me to pay all the oversea earnings when I am filing this year tax return. That why I tried to prepare the prove from the HK immigration office and that is the only evidence I can think of. Thank you!

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Replying to Hercule168:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Feb 2022 08:27

They cannot treat you as UK resident if in fact (that word again) you were not UK resident.

(Facts leave a trail. Eg you say you've been working overseas.... you need to be overseas to work overseas.)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Hercule168
11th Feb 2022 08:37

My trouble is I didn't work full time oversea. To meet the SRT, the person needs to work full time without significant break.
That why I only can get the immigration record from Hong Kong to prove that I stayed in Hong Kong for the years that I left. Thank you.

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Replying to Hercule168:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Feb 2022 09:29

So were you, or were you not, UK resident? Is it the same answer for each of the seven years?

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Scooby
By gainsborough
11th Feb 2022 09:11

I agree with Tax Dragon - just file the tax return (if you need to complete one) showing that you were automatically non-resident as you were in the UK for less than 16 days. You don't need to supply proof when you submit your return - this would only be needed on the very small chance that there was a future compliance check into your return.

For the years that you have been away, don't forget to move on to the Ties Tests section in the SRT if you don't automatically meet the overseas tests - if you have been living abroad, it may be that you are non-resident based on this section (hard to know without knowing your fuller circumstances/how often you have visited the UK in previous years).

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Replying to gainsborough:
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By Hercule168
11th Feb 2022 09:22

Thank you for your advice. If they really ask me the prove, would you think that the immigration record from HK may be accepted by them. Thanks!

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Replying to Hercule168:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Feb 2022 09:35

It might. It might not. Facts leave a trail.

How much have you been in the UK in the last seven years? (That's rhetorical now... I'm out. You know what I think you should do. I agree with Gainsborough.)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
By Paul D Utherone
11th Feb 2022 09:49

Tax Dragon wrote:

It might. It might not. Facts leave a trail.

How much have you been in the UK in the last seven years? (That's rhetorical now... I'm out. You know what I think you should do. I agree with Gainsborough.)


As TD says facts leave a trail. What do bank statements and credit cards show, for example? Where were you spending money? Even in current days of online purchases day to day expenses should give a pretty good clue
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Replying to Paul D Utherone:
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By Hercule168
11th Feb 2022 16:56

Thank you for your advice. Yeah, I had that idea before, but my bank statement cannot cover the whole year because I used cash for a whole month. But, I honestly didn't come back to live in UK for more the required days. That why I thought the immigration record was my only solid evidence since it show the no of day I was away from Hong Kong. Thank you for your advice.

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By SteveHa
11th Feb 2022 09:13

Pedantry alert.

You don't prove the number of days. You prove the number of midnights, except in limited circumstances.

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Feb 2022 09:32

You'll be pleased to know I typed out (but didn't post) similar, to satisfy my own pedantic bent.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
By SteveHa
11th Feb 2022 09:36

I did check, because I kind of assumed that you would have beaten me to it.

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By Hugo Fair
11th Feb 2022 13:55

Oh I do miss the fun ones when I take a 1/2 day break don't I.

OP ... a simple summary:
1. Read the rules carefully (or use SRT if you must) and decide, for each year, if you meet the criteria for Non-Residency.
2. Where you do, make a note of the facts (not beliefs) used to come to that conclusion - and keep a copy of all that.
3. Complete and submit your tax returns for any years in which they are due, using the residency status ascertained at step 1 as appropriate.

There's no point in asking about the same piece of potential 'proof' when (a) it's not needed in order to submit your returns, and (b) we can't tell you whether it would be sufficient (given the absence of a plethora of other probably relevant details).

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Hercule168
11th Feb 2022 16:45

Many thanks for your advice.
I am just curious. May I ask why the hmrc may not accept the immigration record from Hong Kong?
Would it be some of the cases that the record was not accepted before from your experience?
I hope that you could kindly give me some idea? Thank you!

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Replying to Hercule168:
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By Hugo Fair
11th Feb 2022 17:14

This forum is for Accountants and those providing related services ... not those who specialise in Immigration issues (about which I, and probably most of the members here, know relatively little - especially in an advisory capacity).
I've no idea why you're so hung up on the issue of whether or not your 'immigration record' will be of relevance to HMRC ... but my post (to which you're replying) gave you the correct steps regarding your potential residency & tax return issues.

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Hercule168
12th Feb 2022 01:46

Thanks again for the detailed information. I am just unsure some of the residency issue and rules. And the first year I left, it was using old rules (Not SRT) for residency.

Would you know any experts that you could refer me to get some professional idea in that area please? Thank you.

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Replying to Hercule168:
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By Hugo Fair
12th Feb 2022 18:17

Not personally ... and I wouldn't hand out contact details on a public forum even if I did.
Not being rude, but have you actually tried using Google search?
I put in "uk non resident tax advice" and got lots of relevant companies listed.
No idea as to their individual focus of experience or the costs of their fees, but you could always try contacting a few of them and asking.

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Replying to Hercule168:
By Paul D Utherone
11th Feb 2022 17:24

Hercule168 wrote:

I am just curious. May I ask why the hmrc may not accept the immigration record from Hong Kong?
...because they have some other evidence that shows it not to be a true record of where you were.

As Hugo says, it is Self Assessment, so you make your decision, submit the return on the facts, and retain such evidence as you think will assist your claim should HMRC decide to enquire into the return.

We don't know the full circumstances so cannot say.

Maybe HMRC information systems show that that you are still on council tax or other utility company records or have bank accounts here that lead them to query the claim in your return. Who knows. Just maintain such records as you can against a future enquiry

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