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Resignation during furlough

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A furloughed employee has resigned and given a month's notice. I have assumed furlough ceases as a result.

My client disagrees since there is no access to the office to work. The HR lawyer also disagrees so waiting for more clarification.

What do others think about furlough during notice period? I have told the client that I am not happy to claim furlough for this period but also don't understand why this isn't covered in the rules.

Thanks

Replies (37)

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By bernard michael
18th Apr 2020 09:23

You are correct in stating that furlough ceases on the giving of notice.
Furloughing is designed to keep employees on the payroll. He has chosen to leave. You should however pay him his normal wage for the period from the date of and up to the end of notice

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By Matrix
18th Apr 2020 09:29

Thanks for confirming since I couldn’t find anyone who agreed with me. Any idea how I get confirmation on this to convince my client.

That is the problem - the client now has to pay the employee for a month for sitting at home.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By bernard michael
18th Apr 2020 09:33

The alternative is furlough him until work is back to normal and make him work his notice period

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By Matrix
13th Sep 2020 11:32

The employee needs to leave ASAP though. Notice has been given.

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By [email protected]
23rd Apr 2020 16:09

Bernard - hi there, I’m dealing with this now. HR are saying that en employees notice period would be at whatever rate they are at at that time ie furlough or reduced days. Can you point to where you have your answer from. Would be super helpful. Thanks

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By bernard michael
24th Apr 2020 09:47

If your HR dept think they can get away with paying 80% on redundancy you'll have an IT case on your hands.
Ask them for their authority for this statement
The link below gives most of what you need and I quote 1 parts
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus...
If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage costs, up to £2,500 a month,

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Replying to [email protected]:
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By bernard michael
24th Apr 2020 09:48

If your HR dept think they can get away with paying 80% on redundancy you'll have an IT case on your hands.
Ask them for their authority for this statement
The link below gives most of what you need and I quote 1 parts
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus...
If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage costs, up to £2,500 a month,

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Replying to bernard michael:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
24th Apr 2020 10:27

It's not redundancy though, is it? The worker is still an employee while 'working' (and getting paid during) their notice period.

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blue sheep
By NH
18th Apr 2020 09:50

Maybe I have misunderstood but why on earth would he resign when he can stay on furlough and still work elsewhere - he would in effect be getting paid 2 salaries until the end of June

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By Matrix
13th Sep 2020 11:33

True but she has resigned and there is a disagreement between the client and myself on what to put on the claim on Monday so any help would be appreciated. I can’t change the facts.

This is a career move.

I am also not going to suggest she rescinds her notice to increase our government’s deficit.

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Replying to NH:
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By hannahh2
24th Apr 2020 15:02

Is it possible?

I know, that you can't be on furlough and work officially someone else.

Or you know another way?

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Replying to hannahh2:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
24th Apr 2020 15:03

You are wrong - you can work for someone else (or yourself) while on furlough.

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By hannahh2
24th Apr 2020 15:26

I am on furlough and I found a new job (new contract will get on Monday). What do you think will be best for me?

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By Matrix
24th Apr 2020 15:28

Do you mean should you resign?

I would check both contracts and check you can carry on with both.

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Replying to hannahh2:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
24th Apr 2020 15:39

A new permanent job or only while you are in furlough?

In any event, what I suggest would be best for you is to remain completely honest with both employers.

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By hannahh2
24th Apr 2020 15:46

A new permanent job.

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Replying to hannahh2:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
24th Apr 2020 16:03

Quite separate from what the JRS rules permit, I suggest that you might want to check your existing contract/furlough agreement to see what you are allowed to do.

(As Matrix has already suggested.)

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Replying to hannahh2:
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By Cheshire
24th Apr 2020 15:40

Honestly Hannah - how can you expect anyone to be able to answer that questoin for you with no information?

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Replying to hannahh2:
Morph
By kevinringer
24th Apr 2020 15:20

hannahh2 wrote:

Is it possible?

I know, that you can't be on furlough and work officially someone else.

Or you know another way?


You're wrong Hannah. See https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus...

'If your employee has more than one job
'If your employee has more than one employer they can be furloughed for each job. Each job is separate, and the cap applies to each employer individually.

'Employees can be furloughed in one job and receive a furloughed payment but continue working for another employer and receive their normal wages.'

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Morph
By kevinringer
18th Apr 2020 10:04

I want to make you aware that 3 documents were published on GOV.UK 17/04/20 evening which may help you.

1. New guide with worked examples at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-80-of-your-employees-wages-to-claim.... This addresses holiday pay including bank holidays.
2. New step-by-step guide at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-job-retention-sch....
3. The employers guide has been updated (this is version 5) at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus....

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Morph
By kevinringer
18th Apr 2020 10:04

I want to make you aware that 3 documents were published on GOV.UK 17/04/20 evening which may help you.

1. New guide with worked examples at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-80-of-your-employees-wages-to-claim.... This addresses holiday pay including bank holidays.
2. New step-by-step guide at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-job-retention-sch....
3. The employers guide has been updated (this is version 5) at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus....

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By Matrix
18th Apr 2020 10:08

Thanks, I have read everything but I can’t find an answer to my question anywhere.

Please would tell me where it gives an answer to my question?

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blue sheep
By NH
18th Apr 2020 10:59

Personally where there is anything like this that has no clear guidance I will be making claims on behalf of clients and claiming as much as we can (adding the caveat to the client) - my responsibility is to support the client now, if hmrc question it further down the line so be it

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By Matrix
18th Apr 2020 18:11

Thanks so much.

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A Putey FACA
By Arthur Putey
19th Apr 2020 10:06

There is a contradiction in the Ashtons FAQ.

Q13 "The scheme is currently intended to last until 30 June 2020"

Q15 "The government has confirmed that furlough leave will only be available until 1 June ..."

However gov.uk guidance updated 17 April says "This is a temporary scheme in place for 4 months starting from 1 March 2020 ..."

[Edit: found this reporting the extension of the scheme https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52323918]

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By lisamorgan
20th Apr 2020 16:25

Hi, I have an employee who has completed three weeks of furlough via the Job Retention Scheme and now would like to resign. We don't have the work for him to come back and work his notice. Can I still recover the 80% salary cost for the three weeks of their completed furlough? Thanks in advance of your assistance. Lisa

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Replying to lisamorgan:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
24th Apr 2020 10:55

My answer would be yes. The foundation of the JRS is that employees on furlough are still employees - they're just not doing any work. So, he will need to 'work' (and be paid for) his notice period - with a JRS claim for that period.

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By hannahh2
24th Apr 2020 14:59

Did you find what you need to do?

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By Matrix
24th Apr 2020 15:08

Yes the client’s HR adviser confirmed that the resignation did not affect the furlough so I put the claim in on that basis, so will claim until the last day of notice, issue P45 etc. in May.

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By Matrix
24th Apr 2020 15:52

The other posts are getting a bit messy. You need to check both contracts to see if you can keep both jobs legally. Ethically and morally I personally think this would be ripping off the exchequer.

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By mikeholroyd
21st May 2020 21:53

Wondering if you can give me some definitive answers on this - its easiest if I just list the facts
1. Currently on furlough as an employee (driver) at a bus & coach company, and likely to remain on furlough for the forseeable future (at least until secondary schools return)
2. My house has been on the market, and I have just accepted a sale offer on it from a purchaser
3. I'm looking at relocating to the other side of the country, so certainly leaving this company on moving house, and looking for, and hopefully finding work at my new location

Question 1 - How does furlough affect any notice period I need to give to resign? It is not as if there is any work available to do at all, and no driver rotas being produced by the management
Question 2 - Will I still be entitled to furlough payment from the time I hand any notice in to the time I actually leave? Once again, there is no work to do in the company, and technically would still be employed by the company until the date of leaving after giving notice
Question 3 - Am I accruing holiday entitlement at the normal rate whilst on furlough?
Question 4 - If I am entitled to holiday pay accrued, am I entitled to that holiday pay at the full normal rate of pay, or will holiday entitlement be at the 80% furlough rate ?

Thanks in advance

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By Matrix
22nd May 2020 08:38

Check your contract.

However please note that the furlough claim is the amount your employer gets back from the government. Separately you should be paid your notice period and your holiday when you leave regardless of your status. Since my client paid her employee 100% then the issue did not arise on whether it would be possible to pay only 80% during the notice period. Although I understand that holiday cannot be paid at less than full pay.

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Replying to mikeholroyd:
Morph
By kevinringer
22nd May 2020 10:59

Good luck with your move and new life.

Q1. Notice periods remain unchanged. Check your contract. If no contract or not mentioned in the contract it will be the statutory minimum. Your employer may agree to shorter notice at their discretion.
Q2. No one is entitled to furlough: it is at the employer's discretion. Your employer can choose to keep you on furlough.
Q3. Yes - see https://www.gov.uk/guidance/holiday-entitlement-and-pay-during-coronavir....
Q4. 100% - see above link.

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By eggfreez
22nd May 2020 23:00

https://www.gov.uk/handing-in-your-notice/payment-during-your-notice-period

Payment during your notice period

You’re entitled to your normal pay rate during your notice period, including when you’re:

off sick
on holiday
temporarily laid off
on maternity, paternity or adoption leave
available to work, even if your employer has nothing for you to do

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Replying to eggfreez:
Morph
By kevinringer
23rd May 2020 16:34

eggfrez: 'temporary laid off' is not at normal pay: it's at 80% furlough. Same for 'available for work': that too is furlough.

Sick, maternity, paternity and adoption are not at normal pay, they're at statutory rates.

I'm not certain about notice period when the employee hands in notice on furlough. I would expect this to be at 80% too. I can't find anything that says one way or the other.

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By frankfx
12th Jun 2020 09:46

ACAS may be a good resource.
Have used it from time to time on other pay matters.

http://www.acas.org.uk/coronavirus/furlough-scheme-pay

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