Returning to the office

Should we be going back to the office

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I've posted here anonymously, hopefully for obvious reasons.

The partners of our accountancy practice manged to get everyone working from home, which has worked reasonably well so far. They have recently contacted us all to say that they want us to all return to the office from the middle of June, subject to them getting health & safety certificates.

As far as I can see, the government guidance is still that where possible, people should work from home. I'm therefore a bit worried about going back into the office. Whilst i'm sure that they will do their best to get things as safe as possible, going back to the office will still represent an unnecessary risk (in my view).

Has anyone been in a similar position?

Thank you for any guidance you can provide.

Replies (33)

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
20th May 2020 13:45

The (English) government guidance would appear to be deliberately contradictory and confusing, so you can read it as "all back to work" or "stay at home" depending on your world view.

Personally I am following Sturgeon's lead who seems to have a much better grasp of what is going on than the incompetents in Whitehall.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
20th May 2020 14:09

We certainly up here appear to be going in a very different direction with how Trace,Track & Isolate will work.

It appears, per an Alison Pollock of University of Newcastle interview on Newsnight the other day, that we are going far more local with our arrangements, to fight outbreak hotspots, so a bottom up response, whereas you appear to be more relying on this wonderful App being trialed at present and centralised command and control re same, an approach about which I am certainly not that confident.

To me the App seems more an add on to what ought to mainly be a boots on the ground operation and I worry that throwing most eggs into that basket might be the wrong approach, however given my knowledge of science beyond some basic Maths,Physics and Engineering is totally woeful (Plus my two O Grade Chemistry awards which says an awful lot about how poor at Chemistry I was) what do I know!

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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
20th May 2020 14:15

Quote:
Plus my two O Grade Chemistry awards which says an awful lot about how poor at Chemistry I was........

Well, not really. You have two of them.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
20th May 2020 19:30

You get the second by narrowly failing the Higher, a Comp O.

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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
22nd May 2020 10:12

Quote:

You get the second by narrowly failing the Higher, a Comp O.

Rubbish - you passed twice !!

Glass half full ........

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Replying to DJKL:
By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
20th May 2020 14:37

@DJKL I was having a very interesting conversation with a buying manager of a local council (we do his SA) in London. They have been told to go whistle when they offerrered their pre-existing 'track and trace' services that already have in place for vulnerable persons, fraud and absent parents. Everyone one was really up for it, and of course they know the local area, local communities and have some trust there which is really important when tracing people in some communities who simply don't trust 'big government', and wont have a mobile phone in the first place. They were told it was all being done centrally. It makes no sense to build all this from scratch when the skills are out there, and many of these people say at home on 80% wages doing nothing. Pinning it all on tech just sees naive. Not everyone has a phone, or has it switched on. Moreover they were ready to do all of this back in March. 2 months that could have been tracing people and saving lives.

it seems the same with PPE - you have many voluntary organisations making basic kit such as masks - but hospitals are not allowed to pay them for materials to make any more (let alone full rates), instead they are then having to spend huge amount of time fund raising to make more. So many mistakes are being made on this.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
RLI
By lionofludesch
20th May 2020 14:12

Quote:

The (English) government guidance would appear to be deliberately contradictory and confusing, so you can read it as "all back to work" or "stay at home" depending on your world view.

Jason Leitch is your man. He may not always be right but at least I understand what he's telling me.

A few months ago, I was watching an interview with some Welsh Labour MP for Derby, or somewhere equally unlikely, and he was saying that he reckons Boris doesn't really have a firm opinion on anything and just says whatever the last bloke told him.

Still, not a lot of obvious candidates to take over from him.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
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By Rgab1947
22nd May 2020 10:03

Yes like hiding the Nike conference Covid cases.

She, the perpetual moaner about England, will just do everything different to whatever Parliament decides. Noticed she now is following the same easing of lockdown as in England just a few days later.

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Replying to Rgab1947:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
22nd May 2020 10:44

I think I would take the blinkers off re natural antipathy to Sturgeon (I generally share it) and really compare and contrast how we are coming out of lockdown compared with England.

England appears to be working on a far more centralised control based response system, albeit their App is all of a sudden diminishing in significance (I have a nasty suspicion it has issues), we are more going local linking up the coordination of the necessary parties re health/care etc at a local level, and the App we will use is different and I believe is far more going to be in the hands of the medical profession .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52544003

Obviously the steps re distancing in both plans will be similar, they really have to be, the differences are going to be pace of steps and what tactics/tools will be used along the way.

To date most professional analysis I have read favours the Scottish approach, the localised control is far more akin to say what Germany has and the plan also seems to have more potential to envisage different pace relaxations by different area of Scotland, if needed- a localised response.

Just as a point- did the UK parliament really decide the approach being taken down south, seems to me the government decided at cabinet level and that was that. Of course the downside of such control from the centre is if it goes badly we all know where to lay the blame.

Finally, given the Conservatives response to date I am more than happy, in this instance, to back and support the approach being taken in Scotland.

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paddle steamer
By DJKL
20th May 2020 13:58

Ask them for sight of the risk assessments they have performed covering both staff time in the office and staff safety getting to and returning from the office?

Ask them what, if anything, they have done to consult with staff/their representatives?

Ask them what specific considerations they are applying to those members of staff who are at high risk (say compromised immune systems) and those caring for others who are at high risk?

We have been getting ready for whenever there is eventually a relaxation(Scotland), signage has been ordered, hands free wall mounted sanitisers ordered, specialist office cleaning is being set up etc, I have even been buying facemasks and gloves, so ask them what to date they have done re providing all necessary safety equipment for staff/cleaning routines etc?

We have even got a joiner sorted to build a lift flap counter across our office entrance so that there is only a very small area where office visitors can, one at a time,go/touch/etc, so ask what is their policy on clients visiting the office?

We have even formulated practices that will eventually be used for showing prospective tenants properties so as to reduce risk to our staff, if you need to go out and about what have they done re this aspect?

A polite enquiry about the above, and anything else you consider appropriate, is probably the way to go.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By leicsred
20th May 2020 19:10

out of interest we have ordered push hand sanitizer dispensers. Like the soap automatic dispensers I couldn't see the advantage as you clean your hands after touching them. Or am I missing something?

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Replying to leicsred:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
20th May 2020 19:40

Probably not, however I just liked the less touching part.

From memory there was about £35 difference on the cost of each to the hand press ones, given what we have just spent on the floor mats (£204 re each building entrance) I just did not bother trying to save money- same with masks , I think I have ordered the better quality single use ones (but really do not know).

The catch with my job, and the same with a lot of smaller employers, no H & S specialists etc, I have to cope with myriad different areas outwith my comfort zone, so whilst I may be labelled an accountant I actually spend less than half of each week doing accountancy type activities.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By leicsred
20th May 2020 20:18

I agree with not bothering about the cost, I went for the manual ones as I was concerned people would walk past the automatic ones, get too close and splat sanitiser on the floor!

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Replying to DJKL:
Routemaster image
By tom123
21st May 2020 12:05

Similarly, we have people who know about H&S - but that is in the context of machinery, forklifts, welding etc.

So, again, the rest of the PPE we are starting from scratch.

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By bernard michael
20th May 2020 14:37

Never left it

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By Maslins
20th May 2020 15:05

Personally I'm surprised they're doing all at once. I'm certainly anticipating it will be gradual for us. A few benefits of this:
- those who miss social interaction/want to be back can come back early, whilst those happier working remotely/more nervous re risk can wait.
- fewer people in office means we'd be more spread out.
- spreads risk of teething problems with IT/phone stuff if we do it gradually.

When migrating staff to WFH a couple of months ago we did it a few staff each day over a week. Imagine it will be more gradual for them coming back.

Mid June is still a way away, so I imagine they're just trying to keep you well informed of their rough plans, which may be tweaked based on updated guidance nearer the time.

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Replying to Maslins:
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By andrewjlane
20th May 2020 16:31

Agreed. Our approach too

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By Duggimon
20th May 2020 15:49

If you can work from home you should.

I would be interested to know their justification for ignoring this pretty straightforward and clear instruction.

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By mbee1
20th May 2020 16:06

Not even considered returning to the office yet. After a few initial teething problems getting the admin staff up and running, it's working like a dream. In fact, the productivity of our admin team seems to have increased which is a good thing. it's also eased childcare problems,

I suppose we shall have to consider it at some point but will probable phase it in over a period of time with no more than , say, half the staff in at once

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Replying to mbee1:
boxfile
By spilly
20th May 2020 22:51

Are you sure that childcare problems have been solved? Several of our staff are part-timers that fit work around school hours and are now struggling to juggle home-schooling and their work. A lot seems to be being done in the evenings, and I am concerned that some may be pushing themselves in order to keep their hours up, particularly those stretched for money.

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By SXGuy
20th May 2020 18:18

Personally my view is, if they have managed to reduce the risk then go to work. At what point would you feel its safe to do so? When the virus is no longer present? Sorry to say but you are dreaming if you think it will go away forever.

Or perhaps a vaccine?

At what point should your boss consider you to be not worth the bother any more?

If I had put all the safety in place to make sure my staff were secure, and after 6 months of being at home they still refused to come back, id probably consider a p45, but that's just me.

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By leicsred
20th May 2020 19:08

We are bringing a few people in from next week, people who can't work from home plus me. Everyone will have their own office and we have bought ppe and done a health and safety plan which has been distributed to staff for comments and concerns.

I certainly won't be bringing in staff who can work from home just yet.

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By Michael Davies
21st May 2020 11:52

I think Employers need to be flexible and get use to a new way of working.No longer nine to five (as if there ever was,but you know what I mean).,seven day rolling week,with half the office in one day and the other half the next.As there is no footie or cricket on I would have no objection working say a Saturday or Sunday.
Schools could operate on a similar basis.Most teachers work weekends anyway,one way or another.
Even if there is a vaccine,this situation is going to carry on at least this year and most of next year.

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By bernard michael
22nd May 2020 10:33

Amended free advice to clients
Sell all bank shares as their profits will plunge
Take BBL
Pay off all credit cards and other high interest loans/overdrafts
Balance into Premium Bonds using winnings to reduce loan
Keep balance of loan at low interest for 6 years.

Smile a lot when MDTP gives you advice that conflicts with above

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Replying to bernard michael:
Lone Wolf
By Lone_Wolf
22nd May 2020 10:36

You on the right thread?

Fair advice, but seems a bit out of place here :)

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Replying to bernard michael:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
22nd May 2020 10:55

Why sell bank shares in particular, lots of profits will plunge, do you believe the current markets have currently particularly missed pricing this in with regard to banks?

Market timing is the most difficult thing to get right, I have often picked the right shares but my timing in or out has been wrong, have you missed the boat?

Whilst I appreciate your response above is tongue in cheek it could turn out very correct but could also turn out very incorrect re bank shares.

( For what it is worth my approach, as I cannot master timing, is to mainly stay invested but with fewer single share picks and I am holding far more ITs than individual shares,these also more readily allow greater geographic risk spread)

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By peter morgan
22nd May 2020 10:46

Maybe start looking for a job with a firm that is moving to a cloud set up and sees wfh as part of a sensible balanced approach to client service and staff wellness going forward.

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By pauljohnston
24th May 2020 10:40

We are not going back yet. It is not our office that will cause the problem but all those others who use the building.

Now we are over the hump we need to understand that many of us will get Covid just as some got measles etc. This is because we are in a socialable society. It may not be this year or the next

What I think needs to be done is for research to find a vacine but in the meantime ways of making it a less life threatening disease.

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By TalkSense
24th May 2020 22:41

Working from home has not been a life changing experience for our practice. While not totally unproductive, the work being conducted is limited. In addition, the emotional well-being of our staff is eroding - this cannot continue.

We are going back from next week - we are a small office of 12 staff with at least 2m distance between desks. We have all the signage in place, we have gloves, masks and sanitser throughout the office, including a desk by the front door with a large, unmissable sign telling you to sanitse before entering. We are not however, allowing any clients to enter the office just yet - this is as safe as we can make the office.

Whether your employer does this now or in 2 or 3 months time, the risk will be the same.

If you can work 100% effectively from home, then stay there. If you can't, go back to work if your environment can be made safe.

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Replying to TalkSense:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
25th May 2020 11:01

How have you addressed the staff travel issues, that is the one taxing my mind?

We have established we can make our office reasonably safe by instigating certain measures/installing kit and signs etc, and we have sourced most required equipment to deal this and with common areas of buildings we lease to others(not yet all arrived but large delivery here to house this morning to be checked), but risk assessing how staff will get to/from work in a safe manner, as indicated within ACAS guidance as recommended , has proved more difficult. (Not that we can yet even go to work- under Scottish guidance we are likely, re most activities, a stage four business)

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By bernard michael
26th May 2020 10:02

Does anyone know what this nonsense is all about??

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Replying to bernard michael:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
26th May 2020 10:14

No, not a clue, care to expand question?

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Replying to DJKL:
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By bernard michael
26th May 2020 10:32

I'm getting messages between two Aweb members at logs with each other with this query as the header,. below is the latest

Returning to the office
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/returning-to-the-office

On 25th May 2020 | lionofludesch Wrote:

Quote: Screen shots have been passed to interested parties.

Oh, come on !

There are no interested parties.

You can view it by clicking on the link below.
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/comment/777018#comment-777018

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