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Rise of Dodgy and Dirty Accountants for CIS refund

With beginning of CIS tax refund season, lots of subcontractors was to claim unreasonable refunds

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Provided it is natural for clients to push us to claim unreasonable amount of CIS refunds with exaggerated expenses, should we all Accountants not be united to avoid doing such works.While some accountants refuse to budge to clients demands to bend the rules and be complicit in dodgy and dirty tax affairs, there are still plenty more to do anything for pennies.

This I believe is another aspect of Accounting Profession that needs an overhaul just like the one as breaking big four in big whatever, MTD and AML reporting.

How can any Tom, Dick and Harry be accountant or agent to file returns and claim left, right and center and then run away after few years and at same time help develop culture of false claim of tax returns and refunds. Seems like there are far too many of them with recent number of clients in inquiries. The ones who get away then claim to have met best accountant who can claim world to them from HMRC.

Should we petition that only chartered certified accountants be able to become agent and then drain the swamp of unregulated or unprofessional accountants. At least will help create jobs for good kind of accountants. 

Further, why do we have so many accounting bodies doing same work anyway? They also should be merged to create more professional and powerful bodies to make industry better. 

Changes are inevitable - be it for big four, small practices, professional bodies, MP's and government & society itself. But who is to initiate when we all are reluctant to change for good?

Now lets go back to our own sh-t hole. There is no hope when so many qualified and experienced accountants here and other platform dare not to challenge and change but just keep busy to fill the pockets. 

Thank you for listening my Thursday rant trigerred by dodgy client.

 

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11th Apr 2019 14:07

There aren't enough Chartered Certified accountants in practice to cope with the work. That's part of your problem. The answer is to change the tax rules and introduce a standard % for expenses

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By MW-BM
to bernard michael
11th Apr 2019 16:40

Perhaps that's the case. I would love to see qualified and experienced accountants suggest solutions to the community and government - putting the interest of society and profession above individual short term benefits.

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11th Apr 2019 14:08

So you are suggesting that unless you are chartered you must be dodgy and dirty?

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By MW-BM
to doubletrouble
11th Apr 2019 16:44

Not all, but most of them are likely as they are not accountable to any professional body and can avoid any prosecution unless HMRC takes action against them. Speaking from experience where clients come to me with story of "accountants" being disappeared without contact.

why would anyone want to practice as accountant without having fear of professional body looking at them

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11th Apr 2019 14:25

So qualified accountants aren't dodgy? That's a bold claim.

Don't get so worked up about what other people do. If what they do doesn't affect you directly, then why worry about it.

There are rules in place to deal with these goings on. The government lays down these rules and they are responsible for enforcing them. Let them worry about the problem and don't stress yourself out about it.

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By MW-BM
to Lone_Wolf
11th Apr 2019 16:49

Not a claim. Also not assuming qualified aren't dodgy but they can be penalised by their supervising body.

If it doesn't affect us then we are not supposed to speak up about it.
So by this logic everyone looses right to complain and speak about misdoings of big fours, HMRC, MP's and wide range of business, why bother - right?

Rules are made but not everyone follows them and they are not perfect to counter all evolving scenarios.
I am not suggesting being vigilante but if we point out surely someday someone responsible will put effort to change the rules for better.

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11th Apr 2019 14:30

I dont do any subbie work anymore but if everyone took that stance they would just do it themselves and take the [***] even more! I remember I had one trying to claim £500 a month telephone. When queried he said it was correct but wasnt provided with receipts for his PAYG top ups that he paid cash for at the local newsagent...

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to MissAccounting
11th Apr 2019 15:56

Exactly. I did a subbie's tax return for a couple of years, but the next year he didn't use me. I found out through a friend of his that he'd decided to increase his refund that year by putting his new jeep through as a motor expense. As far as I know it went through unquestioned.

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By MW-BM
to wilcoskip
11th Apr 2019 16:54

Chances are "the client" found some "accountant" to do the same work for cheaper and put all the clients demands on plate with eyes closed.
When such "accountants" can do things with impunity and such clients can go doing business as usual, its us "professional accountants" who lose despite so many years of education and work in practice.
This is my point, as some "peers" still don't understand.

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to MW-BM
11th Apr 2019 21:30

If that what the clients thinks he can get away with ultimately he will get caught out

If you are a good accountant you should get plenty of work and not need to rely on CIS clients as they are bottom end of the food chain so to speak with

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By NH
to MissAccounting
12th Apr 2019 06:22

Yeah we had a group of clients like this that all knew each other, for a few years we prepared correct returns with modest refunds as they each had very little in the way of expenses, then one year, one of them gets it into his head that if he does his own return he can get a few thousand back instead of a few hundred.
Thats what happens when you allow any old bod to do a Tax Return online as it is so easy. One day one of them will get an enquiry but 99% of the time they will get away with it.

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11th Apr 2019 14:34

I'm intrigued that you seem to think the only clients trying to over-claim on expenses are those looking for CIS refunds. But whatever, as Wolf and others have suggested, it's not whether or not a qualified accountant is involved, it's their integrity in dealing with these matters that counts. The rules are there, and it's our job to do the best for our clients within those rules.

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By MW-BM
to Kevkava
11th Apr 2019 16:57

I agree but accountants who dont have supervisory body or whose supervisory body are not stringent in implementing their policies, they can get away with dodgy practices.
HMRC will not be able to find out unless its reported by some insider or it is related to some other fraud case.

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11th Apr 2019 14:42

Odd. I regularly read the disciplinary summary here on AW. Aren't all of those accused and sanctioned or expelled chartered and certified?

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to SteLacca
11th Apr 2019 15:04

Mainly because many others aren't members of any body so unless there are extreme circumstances aren't ever regulated, accused or sanctioned.

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to Wanderer
11th Apr 2019 15:30

The point was, being chartered or certified is not a guarantee of integrity.

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11th Apr 2019 16:47

"Thank you for listening my Thursday rant trigerred by dodgy client."

Is it the dodgy client who's upset you, or the unqualified sector of the accountancy profession?

These days, you can get tablets for these rants, or, better still, go and speak to someone. In the meantime, don't handle anything sharp.

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By MW-BM
to Chris.Mann
11th Apr 2019 17:00

It is both actually.

Ha! rant is better than tablets.

Plus, I can see now why accountancy has long way to evolve. So long...

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11th Apr 2019 21:23

Get real. Letters after your name is no indicator of integrity.

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By MW-BM
to Tim Vane
12th Apr 2019 11:09

That is also true. So what can we do ? Nothing.

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12th Apr 2019 00:51

What an idiotic post.

As Glenn says, CIS refund clients are scraping the barrel of most firms' client list. If they are obviously dodgy, then don't act for them, simple!

Perhaps we should "drain the swamp" (as you so politely put it) of accountants who write with shameful grammar. I fear the op may then find him/her self out of work.

One of the most successful and talented accountants I've met was 'unqualified'. Equally, I've encountered some very poor qualified Accountants.

Accountants who are not members of one of the CCAB bodies are regulated by HMRC for money laundering purposes. Those accountants who persistently claim excessive expenses for CIS type clients will eventually find one or more of their clients subject to an enquiry. They then run the risk of having other clients enquired into and if HMRC find that the common denominator is the accountant, I'm pretty sure this will be recorded against them.

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to Manchester_man
12th Apr 2019 08:54

It's also easy to forget/overlook that, in all walks of life, there are indeed bad apples. There's clear evidence to support that assertion.

Whilst I'm not perfect, I do think that the standard of ones grammar and, composition, says a good deal about the individual.

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By MW-BM
to Manchester_man
12th Apr 2019 11:12

So ranting about bad clients and bad agent is idiotic.
And it is worse to have bad grammar than have no integrity.

I assumed people in profession would support the integrity rather than culture of corruption in the business.

Comes into mind the line -With friends like this who needs enemy?

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By AW71
12th Apr 2019 06:16

I hope your numeracy skills are of a far higher standard than your grammar skills.

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By MW-BM
to AW71
12th Apr 2019 11:14

Actually I do and I have seen far worse do far better than me.
So grammar would not be my first priority.
Thank you very much.

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By AW71
to MW-BM
12th Apr 2019 12:17

Again, that makes no sense.

I always find a grammatically correct letter or email gives a good impression to clients.

Seemingly your standards of grammar don't bother you. How professional is that?

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By SXGuy
12th Apr 2019 10:16

I think you're off your head personally.

There are plenty of QBE accountants who do not seek to recover CIS using false expenses.

Similarly im sure, there are plenty of qualified that do as well.

Sure, theres some argument for better regulation, but that's not an argument to get rid of anyone not qualified by one of the bodies, you see fit as being required.

I can bet, there are hundreds of QBEs that know more than you do, and would take offence to that.

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By MW-BM
to SXGuy
12th Apr 2019 11:19

I meant no offense to anyone not working under supervisory bodies but the way clients come to me and explain the story shows how the so called accountants went off the radar and how easy it is for someone to become agent for a year or two, make some money and quit the business.

Apparently, most of the accountants here are more concerned with why I am concerned and how my grammar is rather than find solution to the core issue.

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to MW-BM
12th Apr 2019 12:06

You're quite a tiresome individual, aren't you? You missed the opportunity to put the shovel to one side, a good while ago.
What you seemingly fail to appreciate is that many accountants on here are qualified by experience and, have; absolute pride and integrity in the profession. They have worked for many years (in my case over 46 years) and, the last thing they need is "advice" from someone with "anger management" issues. Many of us have a strong client base and, work diligently to provide high levels of service.
Oh, and by the way, many of us are members of the ICPA organisation, the Chair of which is the ultimate professional and works tirelessly to support the membership.
Perhaps you'd like to share your length of experience with us and, rather than just causing offence (note the spelling) provide some evidence of your abilities?
I'd venture to suggest that some humility might not go amiss, either.

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