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RISHI speaking today. Will it be All Change?

Rishi announcing more changes today

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Maybe after Rishi speaks today there maybe movement so getting JSS schemes actually in place. He can't make it anymore complicated can he? But I'm never hopeful he will un-muddy the waters. 

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blue sheep
By NH
22nd Oct 2020 08:36

and its a loud GROAN from me

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Replying to NH:
Giraffe
By Luke
22nd Oct 2020 08:50

Same here - initial reaction was "oh FFS, what is coming next?" with a depressive shrug of the shoulders.

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By SXGuy
22nd Oct 2020 09:14

He's gonna announce yet another scheme called "if the first two don't fit try this" where you have to calculate how many cows there are in a 5 mile radius of your business, multiply it by the amount of grass they eat then pay 1/18th of it to your employee who then has to sacrifice 2/20th of their pay.

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By Paul Crowley
22nd Oct 2020 09:29

No worse than an 'easy' scheme without rules

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By Jdopus
22nd Oct 2020 10:05

Any word on when the speech is to take place?

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Replying to Jdopus:
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By NYB
22nd Oct 2020 10:22

Everything on web says "this morning". Dont know what time an MPs morning starts nor finishes.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
22nd Oct 2020 16:16

I think I am going to cry

Having an awful week as it is and already chewed out a client last night who is selling their business and asked me to provide (by Friday) a full set of accounts for the sale having never mentioned this before.

Yup 48 hours notice and somehow I am now 'holding up' the sale by refusing to pull them out of my donkey.

He had better say nothing of any consequence as I don't have time for a mailer and 50 clients calling me on Friday.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
22nd Oct 2020 10:31

Just set up an automatic e mail reply/phone answer saying you are ill, that should buy you a few days until the weekend.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Cheshire
22nd Oct 2020 10:50

Great idea. IRSKTB - tell them you have covid! I do hope you told them that they are the ones holding up the sale, by not inviting you into the process sooner.

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Replying to Cheshire:
By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
22nd Oct 2020 11:33

@Chesire that is pretty much exactly what i said to the lawyer.

And a very direct comment to the owners along the lines of your very expensive city lawyers don't seem to be very good if they could not foresee the need for accounts more than 48 hours prior to your completion date given every purchase since the dawn of time requires them., and i wondered openly about what else they could not foresee.

They will get 'em next week some time and complain its taken me a week to do them.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
RLI
By lionofludesch
22nd Oct 2020 14:51

ireallyshouldknowthisbut wrote:

@Chesire that is pretty much exactly what i said to the lawyer.

And a very direct comment to the owners along the lines of your very expensive city lawyers don't seem to be very good if they could not foresee the need for accounts more than 48 hours prior to your completion date given every purchase since the dawn of time requires them., and i wondered openly about what else they could not foresee.

They will get 'em next week some time and complain its taken me a week to do them.

I've had this before.

I asked the client if he was taking his business elsewhere. If not, he'd have to fit in with my timetable. If he was, good luck getting somebody to do them quicker.

Unsurprisingly, we went along with my schedule. Though I did shove him up the queue a bit to be fair.

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Slim
By Slim
22nd Oct 2020 10:48

Unless you are very large it's such a major burden, there are no more freebies for my clients and if they want me to look into something for them it will cost an appropriate amount to make it worth while.

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Replying to Slim:
boxfile
By spilly
22nd Oct 2020 13:17

We’ve done the CJRS as a freebie (a decision announced to clients way back when it was simple & bitterly regretted since flexi-furlough started). Feeling slightly better about JSS as I sent an email out yesterday to notify clients that we would be charging for submissions for this and any further schemes or grant claims.
So although it will be a pain, at least we will be reimbursed. Might even cover the extra costs of the aspirins for the headaches.

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By Cheshire
22nd Oct 2020 10:51

I groaned too when I saw this earlier. Just after feeding back to HMRC that the information about the JSS on their website was 'unhelpful' (waste of my time I know!!)

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By NYB
22nd Oct 2020 11:03

RISHI SPEAKING 11.30

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Replying to NYB:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
22nd Oct 2020 11:08

NYB wrote:

RISHI SPEAKING 11.30

Accountants in tears 11.45

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By gimme5
22nd Oct 2020 11:15

By the way when did we start calling politicians by their first names

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Replying to gimme5:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
22nd Oct 2020 11:28

Well before I was born, the 1939 fleet signal for Churchill returning to the Admiralty is reputed to have been, “Winston is back!” (albeit not proven)

Throughout my life I can recall Ted, Harold, Sunny Jim, Maggie though John Major was Major not John.

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Replying to DJKL:
By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
22nd Oct 2020 11:44

i always like Darling.

So much word play possible in your budget circulars that didnt work with 'Alastair'.

Then we had Gideon of course.
Spreadsheet Phil
Not sure Javid even did a budget, but was "CHINO",or "Chancellor in Name Only" until he showed some backbone and got promptly sacked.

Rishi gets off lightly. I always think of the Red Hot Chilli Peppers refrain "give it away, give it away, give it away now" but he has not got a proper nick name yet, apart from the "Rish's Covid Spreading Dishes" refrain.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
22nd Oct 2020 12:30

Yes, dear Alistair. My kids went to nursery in Dean Terrace just around the corner from his house which was in either Danube or Carlton Street so we used to pass on the street quite regularly and nod to one another in passing, all in that very peculiar Edinburgh way when you know but do not know someone, but then I think he moved as I heard he did not like the catchment state secondary school for his children , Broughton ( Always tricky in the Labour Party as paying school fees is not good for one's career and he would already have to live down having gone to Loretto) and we also moved from Learmonth for similar reasons re our kids schools ,so I have not seen him since. Apparently his mother (no idea if still alive) was /is a very pleasant lady as my mother in law used to bump into her at coffee/tea events up on the south side.

Rowan Atkinson certainly managed to extract a fair bit from that one word, Darling.

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
22nd Oct 2020 11:26

Word on the street is some support for hospitality trading in tier 2.

Maybe a rebranded scheme "Eat out to help out, but don't lick anyone"

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Replying to Glennzy:
Lone Wolf
By Lone_Wolf
22nd Oct 2020 11:40

I don't think it really works without the licking...

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Replying to Lone_Wolf:
Slim
By Slim
22nd Oct 2020 11:45

some serious skills that

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By Duggimon
22nd Oct 2020 12:03

"Instead of a minimum requirement of paying 55% of wages for a third of hours, as announced last month at the launch of the Winter Economic Plan, employers will have to pay for a minimum of 20% of usual hours worked, and 5% of hours not worked.

The government will now fund 62% of the wages for hours not worked . This more than doubles the maximum payment to £1,541.75. In the most generous case, the taxpayer will now go from funding 22% of wages to just under half."

It doesn't seem complicated but I can't actually parse that, I think I've reached the limits of new schemes for the year and will have to have a lie down.

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By SXGuy
22nd Oct 2020 12:04

He's just spoken. And I'm still non the wiser.

Min employee has to work is now 20% of usual hours. Employers only pay 5% of the unworked hours. Government pay the rest.

What that rest is, I have no idea.

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By the_drookit_dug
22nd Oct 2020 12:08

Aye, original queries remain. i.e.
- Can the employer top up?
- What is the reference salary?
- Do the hours actually have to be worked, or just paid?
- etc...

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Replying to the_drookit_dug:
By Duggimon
22nd Oct 2020 12:16

Per the BBC site, which might be incorrectly paraphrasing but seems clear enough: Employee works none, or some hours. Employer pays for at least 20% of normal hours, more if more were worked. Of the hours between normal working and actually working, less what the employer has paid in full, the employer pays 5% and the government pays 62%.

Employee working no hours: employer pays 24% of reference wage (20% minimum plus 5% of 80%), government pays 49.6% (62% of 80%).

Regarding the top up and reference salary, the rules are the same as for the Job Support Scheme, which... oh, yes, we've not been told.

Presumably/hopefully the delay was because this was coming and rules will be swift to follow.

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Replying to the_drookit_dug:
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By NYB
22nd Oct 2020 12:16

BUT its not over the board is it. The reduced working hours is not for EVERY business only those "eligible" - well I have no idea what constitutes that- something with those indirectly affected.
Software can't programme for all this. Its back to spreadsheets.

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Replying to NYB:
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By Cheshire
22nd Oct 2020 12:41

I have a stress headache now!

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John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
22nd Oct 2020 13:04

Sorry to be late to the party, but I've been monitoring the BBC Parliament TV feed too. If you ever want to know when things like this are happening, the BBC's parliamentary schedule page is a good place to look - they must get the timetable info first: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/guide/bbcparliament

Our summary of what we do know is now live on the main news page. https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/hmrc-policy/sunak-extends-support-to...

PS - we're feeling the same way about the regularity of regulatory updates and I may borrow a quote or two from this thread to that effect. In our morning news meeting, tax editor Rebecca Cave commented: "This has got to be the final tweak." I'm not sure if she's right, though.

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By michaelbeaver
22nd Oct 2020 13:35

Who here has actually given up on meeting all their 31 January deadlines? I think I have now.

Short of killing myself and my staff between now and Jan 31, I can't see how we can get through our normal compliance work (which is already weeks behinds) and now while supporting yet another further amended updated undocumented scheme.

I am happy for our clients who it will help, but I'm exhausted.

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Replying to michaelbeaver:
Tornado
By Tornado
22nd Oct 2020 14:26

I think it is highly likely now that the 31st January 2021 filing deadline will be extended for at least three month with no penalties.

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Replying to Tornado:
blue sheep
By NH
22nd Oct 2020 14:32

Yes, personally I would be in favour of it moving to 31st March rather than 30th April

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Replying to Tornado:
By michaelbeaver
22nd Oct 2020 14:32

We were discussing his internally. We think that the deadlines themselves won't change, as the corp tax deadlines haven't. We think it more likely that there'll be a grace period where they won't levy the £100 automatically late filing penalty.

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Replying to Tornado:
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By Malcolm Veall
22nd Oct 2020 14:37

That may well prove to be right - but expect the announcement of this sometime in the second half of January

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Replying to Malcolm Veall:
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By Southwestbeancounter
22nd Oct 2020 15:18

Malcolm Veall wrote:

That may well prove to be right - but expect the announcement of this sometime in the second half of January


Yeah, after HMRC have ruined yet another Christmas!!
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Replying to Malcolm Veall:
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By Paul Crowley
22nd Oct 2020 15:18

That is probably to be expected
Everything last minute

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Replying to Malcolm Veall:
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By Cheshire
22nd Oct 2020 16:38

Thats far too early on current form!

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Replying to michaelbeaver:
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By SXGuy
22nd Oct 2020 17:31

The only ones left to do for me are those which have delayed coming in due to lack of work and no funds.

If the deadline gets extended I will not be very happy as its the only thing I can rely on to get the remaining fees in this year. There's currently about 30 clients all ignoring me. Maybe they know something I don't.

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Replying to michaelbeaver:
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By Open all hours
22nd Oct 2020 18:20

Quite the opposite.
Last time we were in as good a position was 2002.
Anybody else winning?

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Replying to Open all hours:
My photo
By Matrix
22nd Oct 2020 19:40

We are also ahead. But we have been doing tax returns since April. We don’t want an extension.

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John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
22nd Oct 2020 18:35

Brace yourselves everybody! The Treasury must have been saving up its JSS guidance to take in the new revisions. They released this document towards the end of the afternoon: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-job-support-scheme/the-jo...

If you can't face reading it just now, Rebecca Cave has now published her summary guide: https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/business-tax/new-job-support-schemes...

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