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RTI Non filing notices

RTI Non filing notices

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Got a load today. For the period ending 5th February. Even though the pay date is today!!!

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By Wieslaw
07th Feb 2014 08:54

Confused...

If period is ending 5th FEB, then today's pay day is not in the period HMRC specify.

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
07th Feb 2014 09:07

Did you file anything last month

Did you file anything for last month? If you had a payday from 6 January to 5 February, you should have filed a report for that. If you didn't you should have a filed a nil report.

If you didn't do either, then it would appear HMRC are correct to issue non-filing notices. You can hardly complain about a notice that is simply confirming the fact you have not filed. At least there aren't any penalties this year.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
07th Feb 2014 09:09

Three more

Received three more overnight.  One's right, two aren't.

Surely this isn't the most difficult of tasks for the Government computer ?

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By taxhound
07th Feb 2014 09:15

I've had four today

All incorrect.

14 minute queues on the employer help line so not prepared to hold and try to sort it out.

God help us when the real penalties kick in.  It is going to be a full time job.

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
07th Feb 2014 09:16

Incorrect or not?

If the HMRC computers are sending out non-filing notices incorrectly, that is a problem that needs to be sorted out. In fact, it is a problem that needs to be shouted about a lot, especially to MPs and others in positions of authority. A system that sends out erroneous reports is clearly not fit for the purpose of raising penalties.

If actually not filed as per my above post, something that needs sorting internally before 5 April.

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
07th Feb 2014 09:19

Definitely incorrect then

In that case, I shall be writing sternly worded missive to my own MP, and I encourage all accountants to do the same. Whilst I often seem to come out on HMRC's sides in these RTI threads, that's only when I see employers actually being the ones at fault. This is clearly the opposite and there is no way HMRC should be able to levy penalties until this is sorted.

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Replying to djtax:
By 0098087
07th Feb 2014 14:07

With regards to writing to our MP. Ours is useless. He is more concerned with people '[***]' than trying to get anything sorted out. He was supposed to attend a public meeting but said he couldn't because he was a govt whip and busy in the House. At 8pm he tweeted a picture showing himself at the terrace bar with a star from 'Made in Chelsea'. 17k majority. Doesn't care..he knows he'll win next year. But that's a whole other subject. But thank you for the suggestion.

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By 0098087
07th Feb 2014 09:27

Everything was filed correctly. Love this because we will have better things to do after April to appeal all the fines. Payroll person is faxing a letter with printed out receipts showing everything was filed 31 January. Shambles. Was introduced too early. Osborne should be ashamed for this.

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By taxhound
07th Feb 2014 10:36

I was just saying this morning...

From April we will have to change job description from accountants to HMRC RTI cxxx-xx co-ordinators and controllers.  It is going to be a full time job at this rate.

But PLEASE do not forget RTI is saving us all time and money.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
07th Feb 2014 09:43

I don't understand how it can work OK for months 1-7 and 9, yet thousands (if not millions) of notices are sent out for months 8 and 10. What was changed in November ?

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By Metrobrit
07th Feb 2014 09:52

Have exchanged emails with Moneysoft

And they tell me it's an HMRC error.

 

You cannot file a Nil return until after the 5th of each month (but have to file one) but the HMRC software then assumes this is a late return.

However the good news is that from April 14, you can file a Nil return prior to the end of the month.

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By Smartie99
07th Feb 2014 10:03

If there are no wage/salary payments made between 06/01/14 and 05/02/14 don;t you have until 19/02/14 to file an EPS?

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By WongR
07th Feb 2014 10:11

Every one of my clients have received a non filing notice today (despite already been filed).  So far this RTI has been a massive time consuming joke.  I use moneysoft also.  I just wondered could this error be software specific ?

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RLI
By lionofludesch
07th Feb 2014 10:18

Software

I use Moneysoft too, so - yes - it'd be interesting to know if all we complainers on here were using Moneysoft and all those not using Moneysoft were quietly smiling in the background.

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By petersaxton
07th Feb 2014 10:30

I use Sage

and I got a lot of non-filing notices and they were all wrong.

 

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By mhtax
07th Feb 2014 10:32

HMRC Basic Tools

Touch wood no incorrect notices received at all since RTI began

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By chatman
07th Feb 2014 10:44

Incorect RTI non-filing notices

Six received today. No reason for any of them. Faced with seventeen minute wait on help line after being asked to tell them I am having a baby.

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By Kazmc
07th Feb 2014 10:49

same here...

received about 20 today!!! Just trying to work my way through all of them...

We use SAGE

Ha Ha Ha chatman that's exactly what I am doing!! 

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
07th Feb 2014 10:51

Narrowing the possibilities

We use Moneysoft and have been sent two notices this morning asserting incorrectly that we had not filed the clients' RTI returns for the m/e 05.02.14:

filed on 03.01.14 (so not in m/e 05.02.14), but giving 16.01.14 (which is in m/e 05.02.14) as the pay date;filed this Monday, 03.02.14, giving 03.02.14 as the pay date.

I can see some justification for the first one, except that I have always understood that the payroll date is the critical date, not the date of filing if earlier, or could it be that anything filed on the 3rd of the month automatically gets a "you haven't filed" notice!

 

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By mdjames
07th Feb 2014 10:53

Multiple submissions didn't work

I have implemented a system with some contractor clients that need regular cash flow to agree and submit their pay quarterly in advance. Where I submitted three returns (Jan, Feb, Mar) in December I now have late filing notices - others filed in December just for January seem to have worked fine!

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By bernard michael
07th Feb 2014 10:55

I always make sure that I receive the e-mail from HMRC to attach to my submissions via Moneysoft

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By Old Greying Accountant
07th Feb 2014 11:03

Ah, did my own rant ....

... before I saw this

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/question/what-point-0

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By WongR
07th Feb 2014 11:09

@bernard michael

I don't see why we should take the step attach HMRC emails to the moneysoft filing summaries.  Apart from being time consuming, whats the point otherwise of using a third party software, accredited with RTI compliance?  As far I'm concerned the software shows when filing was made (and confirmed with HMRC) and since its not something we can edit or adjust, that will do for me.

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By Old Greying Accountant
07th Feb 2014 11:13

I print and attach ...

... just because it is quicker and easier to access that way, but if you run a less paper office there would be no need.

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By Kazmc
07th Feb 2014 11:13

28 minutes wasted...

Just taken me 28 minutes to be told GNS are being sent out in error and the advisor said they have had a barrage of phone calls! They advised to check all GNS notices received and if you are confident that they were submitted on or before then to ignore! 

I asked what will happen in April when real penalties are attached to these GNS and he just said "don't know"..... 2 months and counting!

We could be looking at appealing £ 2,000.00 worth of penalties from notices received just today!! When are we going to have time to do our actual jobs... paying people??

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By Debi
07th Feb 2014 11:16

I got a notice today which was incorrect and I use HMRC basic tools!

 

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
RLI
By lionofludesch
07th Feb 2014 11:34

Laughable

Debi wrote:

I got a notice today which was incorrect and I use HMRC basic tools!

Love the irony of that.

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By bernard michael
07th Feb 2014 11:18

Surely there must be a way we can invoice HMRC for wasted time in appealing wrongly sent RTI penalties.

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By PAULGACC
07th Feb 2014 11:56

7 Received today

I have received 7 of these notices today, all incorrect. 4 have had FPS's submitted and 3 Nil EPS's submitted. One is a weekly payroll and we submit an FPS every week. We have all the successful transmission receipts so for HMRC to be getting this so badly wrong is a major fail.

Paul

 

 

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By Flash Gordon
07th Feb 2014 12:24

1 so far, awaiting more

There's no logic as it's for my company and I had another in November - but filed all the reports on 29.04.13 so if 2 were later then why not the rest?! 

Next tax year is going to be soooooooooo funny (not).

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By vvixster
07th Feb 2014 12:33

Final FPS submitted

I have received 5 late filing general notices for 3 different payrolls where I have submitted (and had confirmed by our software provider) a FINAL FPS.

I thought the submission of a final FPS was enough to close the scheme with HMRC?!?!  Apparently not!

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By Kazmc
07th Feb 2014 12:48

same...

yes we have received 5 today for ceased trading schemes where we have already submitted a final EPS advising that the scheme had ceased.

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By Old Greying Accountant
07th Feb 2014 12:50

@ Flash , yes ...

... it is so funny we wil be laughing sttill when auto-enrolment starts!

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By Rachyrachyrachy
07th Feb 2014 12:56

I have just received one too.  However this is for my weekly payroll.  I have filed at least 4 in this period.

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By Spindrifter
07th Feb 2014 12:57

FPS vs EPS

For the last 10 months my client hasnt had any payslips processed but doesnt want to shut the Scheme down just yet.

So Every month I do a NIL EPS by the 19th of the month.

Today I got the first and only 'late filing for an FPS' ??? I have yet to submit the EPS because I have till the 19th.

So why the first warning now but more importantly does this mean after April this would have generated an Automatic Penalty which is ludicrous as there isnt any FPS's to submit, just the NIL EPS !          FPS vs EPS   -  FFS

AND, Have you seen the Draconian Penalties that they plan to impose! No leeway not even to the 5th of the month. Your FPS is later than your payslip date BOOM there you go £300

Unbelievable !!!

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RLI
By lionofludesch
07th Feb 2014 13:03

Penalties for HMRC

No doubt if HMRC had to send the client £100 every time they got it wrong, we'd no doubt see a marked improvement.

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By Kazmc
07th Feb 2014 13:24

This will make you laugh...........

A recent posting from Payroll World...............

 

Real Time Information (RTI) has reduced the time and cost spent on running payroll for most employers, according to HMRC research.

Telephone interviews in November last year carried out by the Revenue, found the mean average time spent on PAYE was now lower because of RTI, by an hour – from 2.6 hours to 1.6.

Seven out of 10 (72%) employers said that reporting in real time had “reduced or made no difference to the cost of running payroll”.

A further Three quarters (77%) of those questioned considered the on or before submission deadline requirement was “easy” to comply with, while 12% found it difficult.

An additional qualitative study undertaken by HMRC shortly after revealed four main downsides to RTI.

These included the need for mandatory nil returns, being unable to correct errors without re-submitting Final Payment Submissions (FPS), difficult timing of submission deadlines and the cost of RTI software.

The HMRC report states: “On the whole, employers have found it easy or easier than expected to migrate to RTI and most are confident that they are doing what is required under RTI.

“RTI is successfully encouraging compliance with paying HMRC promptly and with notifying HMRC of changes to employee circumstances.”

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Replying to bernard michael:
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By Old Greying Accountant
10th Feb 2014 14:31

Mixed feelings on this ...

Kazmc wrote:

A recent posting from Payroll World...............

 

Real Time Information (RTI) has reduced the time and cost spent on running payroll for most employers, according to HMRC research.

Telephone interviews in November last year carried out by the Revenue, found the mean average time spent on PAYE was now lower because of RTI, by an hour – from 2.6 hours to 1.6.

Seven out of 10 (72%) employers said that reporting in real time had “reduced or made no difference to the cost of running payroll”.

A further Three quarters (77%) of those questioned considered the on or before submission deadline requirement was “easy” to comply with, while 12% found it difficult.

An additional qualitative study undertaken by HMRC shortly after revealed four main downsides to RTI.

These included the need for mandatory nil returns, being unable to correct errors without re-submitting Final Payment Submissions (FPS), difficult timing of submission deadlines and the cost of RTI software.

The HMRC report states: “On the whole, employers have found it easy or easier than expected to migrate to RTI and most are confident that they are doing what is required under RTI.

“RTI is successfully encouraging compliance with paying HMRC promptly and with notifying HMRC of changes to employee circumstances.”

... when I first read I laughed, as I had completed a survey and said it was putting lots of time on running payroll, more admin blah blah - but today was talking to a new client and they love it. They can see exactly where they are through the PAYE portal, reconcile each tax month as they go, they pay every two weeks so any missed overtime etc . gets caught up on next FPS.

So, I think this is the crux, for a self administering well organised compnay it is probably a lot better, but for a payroll bureau, divororced from the employer it is an admin nightmare.

There is one simple solution which I think would make everyone happy, and that is to have the FPS submission due date as 19th of month following, or at least 5th of the month, regardles of pay date(s). 

Thanks (1)
RLI
By lionofludesch
07th Feb 2014 13:43

Yes but .......

That's all very well, but we've not bothered to waste time on appealing against Non Filing Notices yet.  I'd imagine the time spent will significantly increase after April if HMRC doesn't pull its socks up.

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By Richard_Carey
07th Feb 2014 14:42

confirmation from HMRC..

We (Moneysoft) have just had the following correspondence from HMRC regarding this issue:

For those who have filed their 'no payment EPS' they can be assured that the notification can be ignored....I'm hopeful that something will be made available publically ( i.e. HMRC website) shortly"

 

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By steve.oldham
07th Feb 2014 15:53

I received one for month 8 and 10

And in each case I had filed my FPS weekly on either the Friday or the Saturday.

For month 8 the online account is now showing the "missed" filings but isn't showing the associated PAYE payment.

For month 10 none of the weekly filings are showing.

I use Sage Instant Payroll.

Presumably HMRC will sort themselves out in due course.

I feel sorry for non-professionals who are doing the job correctly and who will be more confused / worried than those of us who have this resource that can confirm system glitches.

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By NYB
07th Feb 2014 17:16

RTI Non filing notices
Took an hour today - pillar to post - to get through to someone who could help. 2 notices received as no FPS for tax month ending 5th FEb. That meant 8 FPS's not received on my weekly paid schemes. Both had 8 receipts confirming submission received. Was told that 44 submissions had been received on each & they were UTD. Lady told me notices issued in error.
THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH with auto penalties knocking at the door!! It must be postponed until HMRC has house in order.

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By Snookie368
07th Feb 2014 17:18

Also with Moneysoft

I received 6 RTI non filing notices for period ended 5/2/14 today.  All 6 were for clients who pay their staff weekly and all returns had been filed correctly on, or before each weekly pay date.  

I use Moneysoft Payroll Manager 100 and have contacted Moneysoft.

 

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By rockallj
07th Feb 2014 17:36

I'm another one with Moneysoft

Again I have received the same generic penalty for a weekly payroll where all submissions have been made on time. I have submission emails and the Moneysoft receipts too, as others have. An utter shambles yet again HMRC.

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By peterdell
10th Feb 2014 14:42

OGA

That was the conclusion we came to, particularly given that universal credit was on the back burner (although Universal credit could accommodate monthly reporting to the fifth). But wait...............there are people who believe every accountant should work 52 weeks year, not take off Christmas day and be slaves to the new reporting system. Can I beckon you from on high oh great ones, prey give us your learned wisdom so I to can sit in judgement upon the minions who get threatened with FPS penalties and all that.

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Replying to Justin Bryant:
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By NYB
10th Feb 2014 15:11

RTI Reporting
Well said. I could not have put it better. It's the offsite bureaux who are struggling. The relentlessness especially re weekly paid employees. A once a month submission would be acceptable.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
10th Feb 2014 15:36

Problem Solved

I think I'm going to send in FPS/EPS for the whole 2014/15 year on April 6th and just send a correction in at the end of the year.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
10th Feb 2014 15:38

Not bothered

I send mine in every pay day - leaving it to the last minute so that I'm pretty sure that what I'm submitting is correct.  But - hey - if HMRC aren't really bothered, why should I ?

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By cherishcurl
10th Feb 2014 16:53

Quickbooks -HMRC submission email says TEST

Is anybody using Quickbooks for submitting RTI?

I submitted FPS on the 13th January (our payday) and received a sucessful submission email from HMRC.

On 7th Feb I receive a message from HMRC saying I didn't file for the period ending 5th Feb. I look at my submission email to confirm that I did and notice in the content of the email it says that a TEST submission was sent and that I would have to file a FPS again.

Log onto quickbooks today as it is payday again and I dont have an option to resubmit last months. It notes that I have already submitted to HMRC.

Anybody had this problem?

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By Tracy White
11th Feb 2014 11:49

Late filing penalty

I have received a late filing penalty of £800 for non filing of the end of year return May 2013, even though the scheme was set up October 2013?!?!

Madness!!

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