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SA Form Completion, CGT & Entrepreneur Relief ?

Straightforward question on what to put where?

Didn't find your answer?

Hi all,

Several months ago now (within 18/19 tax year) I retired early, and by agreement my co-Director/the company, went through the process of a company share buy-back. This was pre-approved by our accountant with HMRC, I have the confirming letter from HMRC.

I'm now completing my (hopefully!) final SA form ever. The final sum I walked away with comprised mainly 50% of the retained profits amassed by us over many years and a smaller sum to 'sell' to my co-Director. 

I don't really wish to bother contacting the old accountant to ask what really is a very straightforward handful of boxes within the CGT section of my self assessment form, so hopefully you kind knowledgeable folk could help me out please?

I'm sure you'll all know this form section like the back of your hand anyway (I've never had to venture into this section in all of the years of SA), but these are the 9 boxes I need to complete before I can move on to the next and final page. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

1) Number of disposals: (Optional) = 1 ??

2) Disposal proceeds: (Optional) = £sum walked away with ??

3) Allowable costs (including purchase price): (Optional) = £ none ??

4) Gains in the year, before losses - do not include attributed gains included below: (Optional) = £ unsure ??

5) Losses in the year: (Optional) = £ none ??

6) If, during 2018-19, you submitted a Real Time Transaction Tax return(s) for the disposal of an asset of this type, enter the overall gain or loss - include the individual amounts of gains in 'Gains in the year' and losses in 'Losses in the year': (Optional) = £ unsure??

7) Tax on gains (shown above) already charged: (Optional) = £ unsure ??

8) Are you making any claims or elections? (Optional) = Yes / No ?? (I've noticed when I click YES that a drop-down selection with Entrepreneur Relief is one of the choices)

9) Attributed gains where personal losses cannot be set off: (Optional) = £ None ??

As I say, this was a VERY straightforward agreement...£sum, date. Company had considerable retained profits. Clean, walk-away break.

Many thanks

 

Replies (22)

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RLI
By lionofludesch
10th May 2019 15:18

Jeez - that was a very courageous decision to walk away from your accountant just before completing the most complicated SA return you'll ever complete (probably).

Why didn't you just say, "I'll be back in April" ?

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Psycho
By Wilson Philips
10th May 2019 15:30

Re box 3 did you not pay anything to acquire the shares?

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By andy.partridge
10th May 2019 15:59

I don't wish to bother asking my old accountant, so can I bother you guys to answer this one simple question . . no sorry, these 9 questions for me for free?

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Replying to andy.partridge:
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By Alan Davis
10th May 2019 17:39

I'm guessing you're the forum troll? Or just one of life's unpleasant unhelpful people? We're you bullied?

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Replying to Alan Davis:
RLI
By lionofludesch
10th May 2019 17:43

Alan Davis wrote:

I'm guessing you're the forum troll? Or just one of life's unpleasant unhelpful people? We're you bullied?

Not helping yourself get your answer with posts like that.

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Replying to Alan Davis:
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By andy.partridge
10th May 2019 17:55

Bullied? No, you're getting me mixed up with Lion.

I always try to help people who I think might return the favour. That's what a mutually supportive membership does. I'm afraid you don't sound like you fall into that category.

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Replying to andy.partridge:
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By Alan Davis
10th May 2019 18:00

Oh, my mistake. So this isn't an open-forum type arrangement where anyone can just pop-in and ask for help from knowledgeable people? Seriously, I was not aware that this is for your profession only. But you are right, I would not be able to reciprocate. Apologies for my mistake.

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Replying to Alan Davis:
By Tim Vane
10th May 2019 18:06

Alan Davis wrote:

Oh, my mistake

Yep

Alan Davis wrote:

So this isn't an open-forum type arrangement where anyone can just pop-in and ask for help from knowledgeable people?

Nope.

Alan Davis wrote:

Seriously, I was not aware that this is for your profession only.

So you didn't actually read the terms and conditions or the rest of the blurb when you signed up? Does not bode well for the SA form filling.

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Replying to Alan Davis:
RLI
By lionofludesch
10th May 2019 18:07

Alan Davis wrote:

Oh, my mistake. So this isn't an open-forum type arrangement where anyone can just pop-in and ask for help from knowledgeable people? Seriously, I was not aware that this is for your profession only. But you are right, I would not be able to reciprocate. Apologies for my mistake.

Seriously, the best advice anyone can give is to go back to your accountant, who knows your affairs, and spend a couple of hundred quid on getting him to fill in your form. You'll get a better job done than by asking random people on the internet - to whom you don't want to disclose any numbers.

How does that couple of hundred compare with what you got for the sale of your shares ? Rhetorical question - but I'll wager it's insignificant. If it's more than 1% - 2% tops - I'll be amazed.

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Replying to andy.partridge:
RLI
By lionofludesch
10th May 2019 18:01

andy.partridge wrote:

Bullied? No, you're getting me mixed up with Lion.


[chuckle]
Thanks (1)
Replying to Alan Davis:
By Tim Vane
10th May 2019 18:07

Alan Davis wrote:

I'm guessing you're the forum troll?

Ooh more guessing. Not too good at that are you?

Alan Davis wrote:

Or just one of life's unpleasant unhelpful people?

Sauce for the goose.

Alan Davis wrote:

We're you bullied?

Well, you've made a good start.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
10th May 2019 16:15

"The final sum I walked away with comprised mainly 50% of the retained profits amassed by us over many years and a smaller sum to 'sell' to my co-Director. "

So, at question 1, have you made two disposals ?

I'm not sure this deal is as straightforward as you'd have us think.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Alan Davis
10th May 2019 18:25

Can I just say here, that I've made a huge error in posting on here expecting help. Is this what the accountancy industry if like? I'm absolutely staggered at the barrage of smarmy, discourteous replies.... not one single person has had anything other than a venomous reply. I hope you are all proud of yourselves.

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Replying to Alan Davis:
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By andy.partridge
10th May 2019 18:31

Thank you for revealing your true colours. Not beautiful like a rainbow.

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Replying to Alan Davis:
RLI
By lionofludesch
10th May 2019 18:34

Alan Davis wrote:
.... not one single person has had anything other than a venomous reply.

Clearly you wouldn't recognize good advice if it smacked you in the face.

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Replying to Alan Davis:
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By JoF
12th May 2019 23:55

Alan Davis wrote:

Can I just say here, that I've made a huge error in posting on here expecting help. I've NEVER came across such a sarcastic, unhelpful bunch of complete arseholes.....is this what the accountancy industry if like? I'm absolutely staggered at the barrage of smarmy, discourteous replies.... not one single person has had anything other than a venomous reply. I hope you are all proud of yourselves. Utter wankers.

Disgusting behaviour.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Alan Davis:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
13th May 2019 09:52

I'm sorry if you thought that my suggestion to consider the acquisition cost of the shares was venomous. It was a genuine prompt.

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By Matrix
10th May 2019 18:56

We can’t help since we don’t know if the sale is eligible for CGT treatment or entrepreneurs relief since we do not have the facts. This is not a straightforward question so you have already received the best advice to go back to the accountant who advised on the exit, that is if you want the return to be correct.

By way of an example of how these things are never simple, one of my clients was taken over and I prepared tax returns for 3 shareholders and each sent me a different closing document. The last one sent me the legal costs which resulted in an amendment to a return already submitted and a £30k reduction in tax. Luckily he didn’t prepare the return himself.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By Tax Dragon
10th May 2019 20:34

Yes my lingo below is wayward. By "answer" I meant "assist with".

This type of question cannot be answered by internet forum.

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By Tax Dragon
10th May 2019 20:30

I've just read the OP. I thought "this is one I might have a shot at being able to answer. There are some gaps in the detail provided (length of ownership, method of acquisition, so on) but I'm sure they'll have been teased out in the discussion."

I then read the discussion. No more details and a shocking and unwarranted change of tone from the querist. Even by the standards set by previous freeloaders this was appalling.

I'm not in a mood to answer any of it now.

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By jcace
10th May 2019 23:33

The money you received could be taxable as income or capital or a combination of both. It might seem like a straightforward transaction, but without all of the relevant facts nobody can give you a reliable answer to your question. You really would be best advised to seek the assistance of the accountants who advised on the deal, as they should have all of the relevant information as well as the numbers involved.

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By Tim Vane
11th May 2019 01:19

Well, that went well. :-)

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