I've been contacted by a mortgage broker who is insisting that he received SA302s from all accountants he works with and was wondering why I could not provide it for my client (answer - because I use commercial software not HMRC's software).
As far as I am aware there is no way when using commecial software for SA302 to be be generated, but that they should use the tax computation from the software.
Has anyone else there found a way to provide the SA302 when using software, and if so, how? OR is the mortgage advisor talking nonsense?
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SA302 is a document issued by HMRC, so you cannot generate one from your software that purports to be SA302, rather it is the tax computation. You need to educate the mortgage broker. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mortgage-providers-and-lender...
They are beyond educating like the banks. They still ask for audited accounts, which I ignore and explain they are unaudited like most small businesses.
As a rule some still live in the dark ages.I had hoped given the instructions they received from their Institute that such events were now a thing of the past.
Tax computation from your software plus HMRC annual statement showing same figure as due tends to suffice.
Mortgage brokers are the second biggest pain in the [***] of this profession - after HMRC of course.
Agree all
The mortgage broker type really needs to understand the rules
This has been going on for years
Most of then have probably never seen a genuine SA 302 in paper from HMRC
The Tax Calculation produced by TaxCalc shows at the top that it is an SA302. That seems to satisfy the enquiries I have received for such a document over the last year or so.
Whilst the average mortgage broker appears to have the intellectual capacity of a woodlouse that got stepped on twice last night (and a similar attitude towards being helpful to others) ... the fault really lies with HMRC (again).
They are so convinced (or determined?) that the world has 'gone digital' that they believe paper documents are as unnecessary as paper money.
Until recently a 3rd-party software developer had to get approval, via a formal & annual process, to reproduce an HMRC form (e.g. P45, P60 and many others). But now, in order to save money, this requirement has been dropped.
So I'd expect all relevant software developers to be able to generate a 'SA302' soon ... and, yes, that should satisfy (aka fool) the average mortgage broker!
The Tax Calculation produced by TaxCalc shows at the top that it is an SA302. That seems to satisfy the enquiries I have received for such a document over the last year or so.
Yes our Sage Taxation software does that too so it seems to work for mortgage advisers fine.
It does annoy me when mortgage advisers get info straight from HMRC (as some have been known to do in the past) though, as they seem to obtain it in days rather than weeks or months and think HMRC are great!!
Do not believe that is the case unless taxpayer files his own return and the SA302 is from G Gateway of the client
Clients are only allowed one tax agent
When the mortgage broker/lender refers to an SA302, they mean the tax calculation from your system (which may or may not be actually headed with SA302) and the tax year overview. You occasionally encounter someone who insists on them being from The Inland Revenue but they never notice the difference.
It's a bit like banks who still refer to audited financial statements - you have to interpret what they mean for them.
As long as the client is borrowing from one of the lenders on the list here - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mortgage-providers-and-lender... - then they have agreed to accept the third party software tax computation (whether it says SA302 and from memory the Taxfiler one doesn't) plus the Tax Year Overview printed from the client record on the Agent's HMRC account.
Unfortunately the implication from the first bullet point is that one can print an SA302 from the Online account, when we all know that you cannot if you have submitted using third party software
I made this mistake recently, Hmrc website does say in terms that you can’t print the sa302 if the tax return was filed using commercial software
I just send sa302 schedule from taxcalc return, never been queried., they usually also ask for the silly hmrc tax overview but that's easy to access
This begs the question as to why SA302's cannot be printed via the Agent account? It's not just mortgage lenders that ask for one but they're often needed for student bursaries and school assisted places. HMRC will issue them for such purposes but would be much easier if we could login and get them ourselves.
I would prefer that some sort of understanding was reached with the lending industry that an SA302 (or it's homemade equivalent) is a document produced for the sole specific purpose of calculating tax liabilities and often has little to no relevance to a client's actual income.
I once had to write a three page explanation to a Barrister representing a client for Child Support Claims as to why an SA302 does not represent his income and why the results in the Accounts were significantly different to the SA302.
I have no idea how this is going to work for SEISS Claims and other COVID Grants which do not show up separately on an SA302.
As has been pointed out already by others here, the longstanding agreed solution is the tax comp produced by the accountant's software plus a print from HMRC online of the TYO. This was formally agreed by HMRC at national level with almost all the UK banks and building societies getting on for a decade ago. Seems that some mortgage brokers are ten years behind the times!
I agree with other comments above that mortgage brokers (and lenders) can be a right pain. Invariably I receive the 'accountants certificate' at the very end of an often protracted mortgage process with a demand (from the broker/lender) that I effectively cancel appointments/holidays/workplans in order it be completed immediately. The better clients warn me in advance but some are not told by the lenders or brokers that this may be required - which causes much irritation all round when left to the absolute last minute to send it to the accountant.
Late to the party on this one, but if anyone is still interested...
Isn't the real question why HMRC's website cannot produce the SA302 if you submitted using someone else software?
After all, by accepting the submitted return, they implicitly agree that they have all necessary data. In which case, it is surely within their database and if that, then it can be reproduced and reported, or if you prefer, merged with the data from those people who submitted direct, and squirted out (technical IT term) as a report to the user. It should be transparent and independent of how you submitted your return. They can clearly do it for the Tax Year Overview, so what is the problem?
I would really like to know the answer to this, as to me it should be trivial to solve, if only by giving it as a learning/development exercise to the next trainee programmer through the door.
(PS: my question is of course prompted by mortgage lenders creating a fuss)
Lenders do not seem to have caught up with reality
SA302 IT IS JUST A TAX CALCULATION!
Not ever intended by HMRC to be part of lenders' income confirmation system.
They stopped issuing on request by borrowers (and borrowers only) because HMRC are there to administer tax, not hand out paper calculations as part of lenders criteria . HMRC time was chronically wasted by this nonsense.
HMRC agreed the system with UK Finance
But UK Finance members pretend not to know
I can't argue with that and I agree with the sentiment that the lenders are wanting it to be something it is not, partly I suspect to hide the fact that really they are operating on guesswork (what is it their investment colleagues say? "The past is not a guide o the future").
I still think it's a valid question as to why HMRC don't link up the data so that anyone can produce the SA302 from their database regardless of original submission. They could do it and still chuckle at the ignorance of the lenders if that's what they want.
Apart from anything else, I worry about what it says about the HMRC internal databases and systems. Clearly they have effectively, if not in fact, two distinct databases for the same data. That has got to be inefficient and a risk, which then means the portion of my taxes which funds them is not being put to best use, to say the least. It's about time someone took HMRC by the scruff of the neck and shook some proper business discipline into it. Suppose this drags on into MTD for Self-Assessment? Different info capability depending on how you provided the data - although maybe that's the answer: no point fixing this if MTD makes for a different resolution.
But hmrc do send out paper SA302s, OK granted it is a bit hit and miss but they do send them.
I guess it wouldn't be hard for them to have an electronic version.