Hi
My Sage 50 (now called Sage 50 Cloud) is running a warning banner that I won't be able to access my software unless I update to the latest version.
I purchased 5 company sage licences in 2015 - at a time when they were outright purchases, no support needed, no monthly fee. When I purchased the licenses I was led to believe they were perpetual licences, but the small print says they are for 15 years - but I accepted that, fine. The software works fine, it hasn't been updated, but I've used Sage long enough to know how to configure the VAT rates etc.
Now Sage are saying if I don't update, I will loose the software. That's like buying a car, and 5 years later, the dealer says, no we've reverted you to lease hire or you can't keep the car.
I can't be the only one with this problem,
any comments or suggestions?
BB
Replies (682)
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But do you really fancy going to court about it? Sage have a reputation for treating customers like pig swill, but you knew that when you bought the software, I'm sure.
shocking unless they have given you some later extra features that were necessary.
Thats up there with HSBC's
"Free banking for life" for certain business customers - they withdrew the tariff those that signed up 6 months later.
Why not point it out to people who take money for advertising their services?
I have heard that Aweb are well known for accepting sponsored articles
Notwithstanding the name, is this actually cloud-based software or the old desktop version? If the latter, we went past several years of not updating without incident, the original functionality was fine. The only issue was if a new client had datafile from a much newer version that wasn't backward compatible with our old version.
Then we moved to Xero and it's been much better.
Its how they (and to be fair most other large software houses) have been operating for as long as I have been an accountant.
It appears that Sage have changed that particular message, previously it stated that, if you were making use of Sage Remote Access (previously Sage Drive) then due to changed with that, you would have to upgrade Sage.
Robbie T is correct in that, historically, if you purchased a perpetual licence then the software would work forever (I have copies back to v9 that still work perfectly) but the difference with newer versions, since around v21, have 'phoned home' to check your licence so, while Sage shouldn't stop a perpetual licence from working, they do have the ability to do so...
John
I've been talking to a Sage Business Partner this morning about this.
Looking at the message that appears in Sage re the action required, it says that you need to install v26.3 or above to continue, it doesn't actually say that you have to pay for an upgrade just that you have to install an upgrade so that it something that really needs some clarification from Sage.
If you do just need to install an upgrade at no cost then I don't see that there is an issue...
There has to be a place for accountants owned software supplier, rather than this sort of rubbish from Sage (and others)
hi buttercup,
Did you try and upgrade? i'm in the same boat and just daren't start the process! but I don't want to have to go down the monthly subscription route either! I feel time is running out as Sage just say 'in Spring' ..so that must be soon!!
TD
I spoke again to a Sage Business Partner last week and, as far as he knows:
1. The enforced upgrade is due, according to Sage, to a security change in the software.
2. The change is coming 'in the spring'.
3. The upgrade will be chargeable.
As for the actual data upgrade process to a new version, I can't remember the last time I had an upgrade fail.
John
presumably there is a backup plan here - if sage is working now and you install on ringfenced computer not connected to the internet and change computer date back in time i dont see how sage would be able to disable your access under that circusmtance. Being honest ref old programs if you havent done any updates in the last 2 years not sure how you would be in the situation you are.
Obviously if you are taking advantage of the vat mtd capabilities of sage and you have updated for that capability you should not expect that to keep working without paying as basically they are providing support for obsolete product which you should expect to have to pay for. Ie you can use original product as intended without issue but if you want it to work for mtd vat that is soemthig completely different that you should expect to get for nowt.
Hello buttercup
Your reply makes sense - i didnt realise that specific version needed to login and verify anything on the net each time you use - so my comemnts are wide of the mark. I do access sage 50 cloud for clients of ours but i do this from our accoutants setup that i dont think is specifically tagged as being a "cloud" version - i either havent noticed that it checks with sage online (if it does) or if doesnt do that check on my version as strictly spekaing its not teh same clioud setup
In summary simply ignore my prior post.
I would agree if you have paid for perpetual licence they shouldnt take it away from you end of and i would presume sage wont if. However they may find a clever way to screw you over by granting you access to the original product they sold you only - that may not be good news if your data is updated to later version that is backward compatible.
"They are so huge, why can't they be "big enough" to respect, the fact that they sold us perpetual licences "
I would be surprised if they dont - very surprised
"They are so huge, why can't they be "big enough" to respect, the fact that they sold us perpetual licences "
I would be surprised if they dont - very surprised
Sage need to look at other huge companies that did not listen to their loyal customers like Nokia, Blackberry, Lotus (which started losing customers quickly after IBM bought the company for its groupware product, Lotus Notes, and started neglecting Lotus 123).
I've just heard back from my Business Partner contact.
First of all, to clarify the issue, the reason for this whole situation is due to an internet security standard (which isn't Sage's) called TLS. It is used by thousands of software vendors to secure online communications. Prior to v26.3, Sage were using TLS1.0 for communication with their licence server but that is coming to the end of it's life and the current version is TLS1.2 which Sage have used since v26.3 and it is the change in TLS that is forcing the upgrade, not a change in Sage.
I'm told today that Sage are going to postpone the forced update of software for 12 months and when they do decide to enforce the change, 6 months notice will be given. So, the change is still going to happen but not for some time...
John
... and it's still, despite the careful positioning by Sage, entirely because of Sage (as it's their decision to make it a mandatory part of their desktop software that it has to communicate remotely with their licence server)!
Prior to the introduction of the cash-cow that is subscription-based licensing, they had no problem in managing licences within the desktop software. So this 'facility' is just a means of making you dependent on their goodwill (or on your payment for whatever is demanded), despite there being no benefit to you.
they had no problem in managing licences within the desktop software.
That's because there was no management of licences at all. I could give you my serial number and activation key and you'd have a fully working copy of Sage that you'd never paid for...
Well that was just poor software design then. I was responsible for quite a lot of software package development pre-internet (let alone cloud) and the installation performed what I thought was a fairly common process. The exact details escape me after all these years but it was something along the lines of a checksum that was generated by reference to a combination of the licence number and the PC Bios ... thereby 'locking' the licence to that piece of hardware. Certainly re-installation on, say, a new server required a new licence number to be obtained from the supplier (for which there was no charge as part of support services) ... thereby ensuring the developer retained control of licences without limiting the purchaser in what he/she could do.
Well that was just poor software design then. I was responsible for quite a lot of software package development pre-internet (let alone cloud) and the installation performed what I thought was a fairly common process. The exact details escape me after all these years but it was something along the lines of a checksum that was generated by reference to a combination of the licence number and the PC Bios ... thereby 'locking' the licence to that piece of hardware. Certainly re-installation on, say, a new server required a new licence number to be obtained from the supplier (for which there was no charge as part of support services) ... thereby ensuring the developer retained control of licences without limiting the purchaser in what he/she could do.
And Sage did exactly that when they introduced v9 of Sage 50 (I worked there at the time) and, as I recall, it generated more support calls that any other issue ever did so it was removed in v9.1
John
Today an email arrives from my Sage support company . . . . "These updates are due to take place on 30th September 2022. After this date, anyone using Sage 50 Accounts Essentials v26.2 and below will no longer be able to access their software" - without paying (e.g.1 user, 1 company with Email Support (RRP: £27.50) - £24.75 - per month)
However a link to Sage eSage Help Centre -
https://gb-kb.sage.com/portal/app/portlets/results/viewsolution.jsp?solu... says simply "We recommend you install the latest updates as soon as possible to avoid any disruption."
You left out the best bit of their support guidance:
"If you still need access to your read-only Sage 50 Accounts, you must install the update.
However if you no longer require access to the software you don't need to upgrade"!
We have also been approached by a reseller to advise that our Sage 50 Accounts, with a perpetual license, will cease to function later this year. We are well aware it is not the latest version but it is amply capable of what we need it for. We don’t need support for it (its not like payroll where we need the latest legislation updates).
It surely can’t be legal for a software vendor to disable a product years after selling it as a perpetual license, with the additional issue with accounting software that the owner may need to reference the data for a number of years regardless of if they move to a different product. Through the archive feature in Sage 50 we have data going back over 10 or more financial years as we had earlier versions of Sage prior to the one we currently use.
Is it really expected for a company to support a product forever, even a 1000 years from now. That is not what a perpetual license provides. It is a license to use the product as long as the product exists, without extra cost, which is what Sage does. There will come a time where the offering is no longer feasible.
Compare to a situation where for example, someone bought a perpetual license of Microsoft Money (remember that?), back in 1997. The software has ceased to exist, and surely there was no expectation Microsoft would continue to provide full support and unlimited access forever.
Sage would probably cover their backs by classing the subscription version as completely different to the perpetual license version.
Not a true analogy.
Sage have not 'withdrawn support', they have actively decided to force the software to stop working at all (even though the purchaser would be happy to keep using it).
Is it really expected for a company to support a product forever, even a 1000 years from now. That is not what a perpetual license provides. It is a license to use the product as long as the product exists, without extra cost, which is what Sage does. There will come a time where the offering is no longer feasible.
Compare to a situation where for example, someone bought a perpetual license of Microsoft Money (remember that?), back in 1997. The software has ceased to exist, and surely there was no expectation Microsoft would continue to provide full support and unlimited access forever.
Sage would probably cover their backs by classing the subscription version as completely different to the perpetual license version.
I bought MS Money back in 1998 for my personal finance tracking. Still works perfectly well on my Windows 11 machine in 2022, now with 24 years worth of data! When MS decided to end of life the product they issued a non-supported and non-updated version for people to continue to use, rather than just dumping them in the doo-doo unless they paid a large monthly fee.
I have a client using Sage Line 50 v20. I do not believe that this version "phones home" and so fortunately should be immune from this issue but can anybody confirm that it does not check the licence?
They have not heard anything from Sage so I think probably OK but would be good to know for sure.
I have a client who has perpetual discs Sage 50 Accounts Professional, version 21 (.5.9.201), also doesnt appear to 'phone home'.
They too have had no communication from sage. Bought from a reseller, nothing from them either so they tell me.
How can they find out for sure it doesnt do the phoning home piece? Or that they wont be switched off without calling Sage?
They also have an update disc, not fully sure what version, think its v24. Never installed, no clue why. Presumably now something that they should not do?
Doh.
Its so obvious now you've said it. Thank you BB. Plus for highlighting it in the first instance. I will hazard a guess my client has done that already, but will double check.
Im still suffering from sleep deprevation after being dragged to a 'nightclub' at weekend. Never again. Mind you I said that 25 + years ago too.
Wow that's a loooooong time (25+ years) to recover sufficiently for a return visit ... what's the name of this exciting club?
If I told you I would have to kill you, or die from even more embarassement.
3 people on the dancefloor when we arrived, not many more when we left several hours and many drinks later.
Thank you. That sounds easy to test without disrupting their work too much. I am fairly sure they are unaffected but certainly worth checking.
And thanks for digging into this whole issue. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution.
That's amazing progress that they have put this in an email to you! hopefully this means we don't need to worry come the end of September.. I have today switched off my wifi and I can still log in and don't get any error message (only done it once so far), my colleague cannot connect but that's because the main data is on my machine so we need the internet to connect the two together. We are on V25.1.128.0