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Sage 50 Cloud - won't work unless you update??

From Spring 22 Sage 50 Cloud - won't work unless you buy a new update??

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Hi 

My Sage 50 (now called Sage 50 Cloud) is running a warning banner that I won't be able to access my software unless I update to the latest version.

I purchased 5 company sage licences in 2015 - at a time when they were outright purchases, no support needed, no monthly fee.  When I purchased the licenses I was led to believe they were perpetual licences, but the small print says they are for 15 years - but I accepted that, fine.  The software works fine, it hasn't been updated, but I've used Sage long enough to know how to configure the VAT rates etc.

Now Sage are saying if I don't update, I will loose the software.  That's like buying a car, and 5 years later, the dealer says, no we've reverted you to lease hire or you can't keep the car.

I can't be the only one with this problem, 

any comments or suggestions?

BB

 

 

 

 

 

Replies (27)

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By Moonbeam
28th Jan 2022 13:24

But do you really fancy going to court about it? Sage have a reputation for treating customers like pig swill, but you knew that when you bought the software, I'm sure.

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By rmillaree
28th Jan 2022 13:51

shocking unless they have given you some later extra features that were necessary.

Thats up there with HSBC's

"Free banking for life" for certain business customers - they withdrew the tariff those that signed up 6 months later.

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By Paul Crowley
28th Jan 2022 14:25

Why not point it out to people who take money for advertising their services?
I have heard that Aweb are well known for accepting sponsored articles

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By RobbieT
28th Jan 2022 14:29

Notwithstanding the name, is this actually cloud-based software or the old desktop version? If the latter, we went past several years of not updating without incident, the original functionality was fine. The only issue was if a new client had datafile from a much newer version that wasn't backward compatible with our old version.
Then we moved to Xero and it's been much better.

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By buttercup books
28th Jan 2022 14:49

Thanks for the reply.

my software is not cloud based, it's PC based, but in a previous conversation with Sage, I argued my Sage was not cloud and was told, it's just the new name.
Hopefully Robbie T is correct and it will continue to work.
I do know my software logs into Sage to confirm the licence every time I open it, and even though I haven't done an update the Home page advert and this new banner appear, so clearly it is doing advertising updates.
I wonder if Sage are trying to threaten us into buying an update - but who can run the risk of hitting the cut-off to see if it works.

A couple of my small companies have very small number of entries, and are with NatWest, I could switch them to Free Agent - anyone used Freeagent??

thanks again, BB

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
28th Jan 2022 14:49

Its how they (and to be fair most other large software houses) have been operating for as long as I have been an accountant.

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By johndon68
28th Jan 2022 16:07

It appears that Sage have changed that particular message, previously it stated that, if you were making use of Sage Remote Access (previously Sage Drive) then due to changed with that, you would have to upgrade Sage.

Robbie T is correct in that, historically, if you purchased a perpetual licence then the software would work forever (I have copies back to v9 that still work perfectly) but the difference with newer versions, since around v21, have 'phoned home' to check your licence so, while Sage shouldn't stop a perpetual licence from working, they do have the ability to do so...

John

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By johndon68
14th Feb 2022 10:25

I've been talking to a Sage Business Partner this morning about this.

Looking at the message that appears in Sage re the action required, it says that you need to install v26.3 or above to continue, it doesn't actually say that you have to pay for an upgrade just that you have to install an upgrade so that it something that really needs some clarification from Sage.

If you do just need to install an upgrade at no cost then I don't see that there is an issue...

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Replying to johndon68:
By buttercup books
14th Feb 2022 14:06

Hi Johndon68,

Sage aren't talking to me because I have so far declined their kind offer of a hugely expensive monthly subscription.

Do you fancy talking to them again, and asking whether the Desktop - non cloud perpetual licences will cease to work in "spring 2022".

The banner has disappeared from my Sage - so I now don't know if Sage are not applying it to perpetual licences, or just assuming that I have read and understood the warning.

We really need clarification, but as I said, Sage aren't talking to me.
BB

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By JD
14th Feb 2022 10:32

There has to be a place for accountants owned software supplier, rather than this sort of rubbish from Sage (and others)

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Replying to JD:
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By Wanderer
23rd Feb 2022 13:00

What, like VT Transaction Plus????

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By buttercup books
14th Feb 2022 14:02

I haven't tried to install the upgrade for fear of causing chaos in my Sage system, but I bet you can't update without paying for it, and the only way you can buy anything on a perpetual licence now is to "upgrade" to monthly licence.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong

BB

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Replying to buttercup books:
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By turkishdelight
22nd Feb 2022 12:58

hi buttercup,
Did you try and upgrade? i'm in the same boat and just daren't start the process! but I don't want to have to go down the monthly subscription route either! I feel time is running out as Sage just say 'in Spring' ..so that must be soon!!
TD

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By johndon68
22nd Feb 2022 13:07

I spoke again to a Sage Business Partner last week and, as far as he knows:

1. The enforced upgrade is due, according to Sage, to a security change in the software.
2. The change is coming 'in the spring'.
3. The upgrade will be chargeable.

As for the actual data upgrade process to a new version, I can't remember the last time I had an upgrade fail.

John

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Replying to johndon68:
By buttercup books
23rd Feb 2022 12:34

Hi Jondon68,
Thank you so much for that information,
It is , I suspected, a backdoor way to force perpetual licencees to give up their rights.

but thanks for taking the time to get a clearer answer,

I will phone Sage, if I get any clear answer I will let you all know.

Regards,BB

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By buttercup books
23rd Feb 2022 14:03

Okay guys, I've just spoken to Sage

First person - says it's to do with MTD - your version isn't MTD compliant -
-I replied - that's fine, I don't file VAT with Sage -
She says - Ohh well, you'll be fine then.
I replied, but the banner on my Sage says I will not be able to access my Software - are you turning off my access -
Answer - no I don't think so, ohhh I'd better check with technical, I'll put you through
Second person on Sales Team - she says it's to do with TLS - what ever that is ?
She pointed out - that I own my software, I will continue to own my software -
Me- so will it still work -
Sage - We don't have a definitive answer yet - at the moment we don't know -but there will be some loss of functionality -
Me - so when will the changes happen
Sage - we don't have a definitive answer yet, you will receive more details by email -
I then checked they had my correct email address- so they can't blame me not getting an email to me
Sage then went on to quote me £82.50 plus VAT per month to continue to use Sage- compared to the NIL per month I currently pay on my Perpetual purchased version of Sage.

I will await an email from Sage with more definitive information.

BB

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Replying to buttercup books:
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By rmillaree
23rd Feb 2022 14:11

presumably there is a backup plan here - if sage is working now and you install on ringfenced computer not connected to the internet and change computer date back in time i dont see how sage would be able to disable your access under that circusmtance. Being honest ref old programs if you havent done any updates in the last 2 years not sure how you would be in the situation you are.

Obviously if you are taking advantage of the vat mtd capabilities of sage and you have updated for that capability you should not expect that to keep working without paying as basically they are providing support for obsolete product which you should expect to have to pay for. Ie you can use original product as intended without issue but if you want it to work for mtd vat that is soemthig completely different that you should expect to get for nowt.

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Replying to rmillaree:
By buttercup books
23rd Feb 2022 14:32

Hi Rmillaree

thank you for your reply

You can't re-install it - without getting a new key from Sage,
You can't ring fence it from the internet, because even though it's a desk top program every time you open the program it logs into Sage HQ to check the licence number.
I know this because I've tried to log in when I've had power to the computer, but my internet has been down, and the Sage program comes up with a warning - Sage will only run for 3 days without internet access -

Sorry (genuine comment, please don't read challenge or aggression here)- I'm not sure what you mean by - "Being honest ref old programs if you havent done any updates in the last 2 years not sure how you would be in the situation you are." - I haven't done any updates since for several years - and I and a lot of other users are in this situation,

What Sage are implying is that we can't continue to use the original product - it isn't clear whether they actually intent to turn off access to the software we own on our desktops - or if it's just a bluff to scare owners of Perpetual licences like me to switch to monthly payments.

regards, BB

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Replying to buttercup books:
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By rmillaree
23rd Feb 2022 15:34

Hello buttercup

Your reply makes sense - i didnt realise that specific version needed to login and verify anything on the net each time you use - so my comemnts are wide of the mark. I do access sage 50 cloud for clients of ours but i do this from our accoutants setup that i dont think is specifically tagged as being a "cloud" version - i either havent noticed that it checks with sage online (if it does) or if doesnt do that check on my version as strictly spekaing its not teh same clioud setup
In summary simply ignore my prior post.

I would agree if you have paid for perpetual licence they shouldnt take it away from you end of and i would presume sage wont if. However they may find a clever way to screw you over by granting you access to the original product they sold you only - that may not be good news if your data is updated to later version that is backward compatible.

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Replying to rmillaree:
By buttercup books
23rd Feb 2022 16:34

Thanks for your reply rmillaree

Let's just wait and see what Sage do.

I know I was one of the last to buy Perpetual licences and they have tried in the last 5 years to manoeuvre it off me several times, including one time, just sending me a bill/direct debit mandate -

They are so huge, why can't they be "big enough" to respect, the fact that they sold us perpetual licences even if they now regret it. It's my software - I bought it, leave it alone - don't update it, don't amend it, just leave it alone the way you sold it to me. I'd be happy with that!

hey ho!!

regards, BB

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Replying to buttercup books:
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By rmillaree
23rd Feb 2022 16:43

"They are so huge, why can't they be "big enough" to respect, the fact that they sold us perpetual licences "
I would be surprised if they dont - very surprised

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Replying to rmillaree:
AS
By AS
24th Feb 2022 10:55

rmillaree wrote:

"They are so huge, why can't they be "big enough" to respect, the fact that they sold us perpetual licences "
I would be surprised if they dont - very surprised

Sage need to look at other huge companies that did not listen to their loyal customers like Nokia, Blackberry, Lotus (which started losing customers quickly after IBM bought the company for its groupware product, Lotus Notes, and started neglecting Lotus 123).

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By johndon68
10th Mar 2022 15:02

I've just heard back from my Business Partner contact.

First of all, to clarify the issue, the reason for this whole situation is due to an internet security standard (which isn't Sage's) called TLS. It is used by thousands of software vendors to secure online communications. Prior to v26.3, Sage were using TLS1.0 for communication with their licence server but that is coming to the end of it's life and the current version is TLS1.2 which Sage have used since v26.3 and it is the change in TLS that is forcing the upgrade, not a change in Sage.

I'm told today that Sage are going to postpone the forced update of software for 12 months and when they do decide to enforce the change, 6 months notice will be given. So, the change is still going to happen but not for some time...

John

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Replying to johndon68:
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By Hugo Fair
10th Mar 2022 18:08

... and it's still, despite the careful positioning by Sage, entirely because of Sage (as it's their decision to make it a mandatory part of their desktop software that it has to communicate remotely with their licence server)!

Prior to the introduction of the cash-cow that is subscription-based licensing, they had no problem in managing licences within the desktop software. So this 'facility' is just a means of making you dependent on their goodwill (or on your payment for whatever is demanded), despite there being no benefit to you.

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By johndon68
10th Mar 2022 18:28

Hugo Fair wrote:
they had no problem in managing licences within the desktop software.

That's because there was no management of licences at all. I could give you my serial number and activation key and you'd have a fully working copy of Sage that you'd never paid for...

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Replying to johndon68:
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By Hugo Fair
10th Mar 2022 19:47

Well that was just poor software design then. I was responsible for quite a lot of software package development pre-internet (let alone cloud) and the installation performed what I thought was a fairly common process. The exact details escape me after all these years but it was something along the lines of a checksum that was generated by reference to a combination of the licence number and the PC Bios ... thereby 'locking' the licence to that piece of hardware. Certainly re-installation on, say, a new server required a new licence number to be obtained from the supplier (for which there was no charge as part of support services) ... thereby ensuring the developer retained control of licences without limiting the purchaser in what he/she could do.

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By johndon68
11th Mar 2022 09:25

Hugo Fair wrote:

Well that was just poor software design then. I was responsible for quite a lot of software package development pre-internet (let alone cloud) and the installation performed what I thought was a fairly common process. The exact details escape me after all these years but it was something along the lines of a checksum that was generated by reference to a combination of the licence number and the PC Bios ... thereby 'locking' the licence to that piece of hardware. Certainly re-installation on, say, a new server required a new licence number to be obtained from the supplier (for which there was no charge as part of support services) ... thereby ensuring the developer retained control of licences without limiting the purchaser in what he/she could do.

And Sage did exactly that when they introduced v9 of Sage 50 (I worked there at the time) and, as I recall, it generated more support calls that any other issue ever did so it was removed in v9.1

John

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