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Sage 50 version 24 & 23 not MTD Compliant?

I have just been told by Sage that version 23 & 24 is not MTD compliant, is this correct?

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I have just tried to renew a client's Sage Support only to be informed that because this client is on Sage 50 version 24.2 they will not be MTD compliant in April when  VAT MTD starts and that all owners of Sage 50 have to either switch to the Sage 50C subscription version or pay an extra £25 & Vat every month for the privilege of filing their VAT Return electronically, even though they have been carrying out electronic submission for years using Sage.

This is the first time I have heard this from Sage despite a client just being sold a Sage 50 version 24 upgrade on the regular license.

Has anyone else been told this?

I am really not amused about this as I still can't get the Sage 50C to work properly on the 3 companies that I have moved to it on client manager.

Replies (28)

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
20th Jul 2018 13:31

its just $age doing what they do. Keep screw_ing you over.

Why not use a standalone product?

Cant think they would be £300!

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By tom123
20th Jul 2018 13:31

Sage want to charge me £4k for an addon to Sage 200, so you are doing well :)

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
20th Jul 2018 13:41

I think that is the deal, from September everyone has to go onto Sage subscription model.

As suggested could you not keep on using the version your on then buy some filing software to submit it.

I think Taxcalc etc have tools to do this, not ideal but would save committing to subscription model for ever.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
21st Jul 2018 17:57

Another Sage muggins.

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By Sue01
23rd Jul 2018 11:30

Are you still able to submit VAT returns using Sage Software now? With Client Manager Version 21 I lost the ability to do that approximately four months ago and now have to sign into the HMRC portal, of course that option will disappear so as well.

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Replying to Sue01:
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By PAMDILL
25th Jul 2018 16:25

yes, I can still file them electroncially from the client manager, that is why I did not think there would be any issue.

I have managed to get a deal on the subscription for my client for the next 2 years, in this client's case it is going to save them money on their annual Sage cover but it does not help my other clients who don't take the support and have integrated software.

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Replying to PAMDILL:
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By Sue01
25th Jul 2018 16:41

I think I will look at Tax Calc which someone has mentioned above. Hopefully I could then stay with the version of Sage I am on and file from third party software. Unless Tax Calc significantly increase their prices for MTD.

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By WhiteRose
23rd Jul 2018 22:18

I read this yesterday and checked with Sage, they tell me that Sage 50 will be MTD compliant, you will not be forced to go onto the cloud version.

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Replying to WhiteRose:
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By PAMDILL
25th Jul 2018 16:27

It is not the cloud version that they want the subscription for, it is the desktop version, you either have to take the subscription model or pay £25 & VAT per month for a module to file the VAT from the current version of Sage 50.

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By Smalltalk
24th Jul 2018 14:44

we're on v22. wonder if we could keep using it till 2020, and use some vat filing software around at annual cost of less than £100 instead of paying them £100 a month sub to upgrade, take the soft landing period, then switch or upgrade in 2020? as we would have digital records, but not digital link to link sage with the other software

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By davidbrokerage
13th Aug 2018 15:08

Why is it a hardship to be a subscriber? It's pretty simple, if you want to have updates to software you have to subscribe to it. The same is true for almost any other software vendor I can think of...

It's also the same with pretty much any other service you pay for and you wouldn't expect to get Sky HD without paying for it and/or switching out the box despite you paying for TV for years..

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Replying to davidbrokerage:
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By paulwakefield1
13th Aug 2018 15:34

davidbrokerage wrote:
Why is it a hardship to be a subscriber?

Compared with standalone: Cost and what happens when you stop (loss of access /having to download and convert).

I can see why the subscription model works well for the supplier but the benefits for the customer are less clear cut.

Horses for courses. It is good to have a choice between subscription and standalone. Personally the subscription model for Office 365 works well for me; for Sage, it does not.

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Replying to davidbrokerage:
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By Sue01
13th Aug 2018 15:50

Cloud Software means you need to have reliable broadband. We do not all have stable connections or broadband speeds capable of running online software or to be able to download updates.

We choose to have services such as Sky HD this is being forced on us.

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By [email protected]
12th Oct 2018 11:19

Can someone tell me in plain English what is the difference between filing via sage now and filing in Apr 19
as I use the long id code to submit the VAT return now

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Replying to [email protected]:
RLI
By lionofludesch
12th Oct 2018 11:22

It's too soon.

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By Sarah Sutton
15th Oct 2018 14:01

I believe bridging software at taxoptimiser may help - you should be able to download the VAT reports directly into the software to send the MTD submissions. I have come up with exactly the same problem with SageV24 and hope this will be a solution.

https://www.taxoptimiser.co.uk/Features/MTDVAT

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Replying to Sarah Sutton:
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By Sue01
15th Oct 2018 14:19

Thanks Sarah. I think bridging software may be the best option for me. Although it was interesting to read this morning that Freeagent have launched free licences for clients that bank with Nat West and RBS so I may look at that as well.

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By steve.oldham
18th Dec 2018 15:04

Sorry to bump an old discussion but I'm just researching this myself. Am the treasurer for a small club (but over £85k turnover) who use standalone Sage 50 currently, and submit VAT returns directly from the software currently.

Sounds like Sage are actually making the decision to deactivate current functionality in the standalone product in order to force people to pay them more money, and using MTD as the excuse?

There is ZERO benefit to the government for my business, a COST to the business, and a BENEFIT to Sage from this misguided piece of legislation.

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Replying to steve.oldham:
RLI
By lionofludesch
18th Dec 2018 15:25

Well, yes. You're just saying what we've all been saying for a couple of years or more.

You're a bit late to the party.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Sue01
18th Dec 2018 15:39

Personally I would say that the more who speak up the better.

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Replying to steve.oldham:
Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
18th Dec 2018 22:55

Just ditch Sage and get Xero it will do a better job for you anyway and will be fully MTD when ready

Sage have lost the plot on pricing

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Replying to Glennzy:
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By Sue01
19th Dec 2018 06:04

If the information I have been given recently is correct that is not the case. I have been quoted £30 per client per month with Xero and £1oo a month for 5o clients with Sage. Plus I really was not impressed with Xero's customers service it was very difficult getting a response from them.

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Replying to Glennzy:
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By steve.oldham
19th Dec 2018 10:53

Not the case tbh. Sage standalone product does everything I need and is a sunk cost. Moving to Xero is a cost of £264 (at a quick glance) per year, for ZERO benefit to anyone apart from Xero.

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Replying to steve.oldham:
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By johnhemming
19th Dec 2018 15:38

This video shows how to extract data from a desktop version of Sage for a Bridging system. It has a general application.;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKWr2qYlZSI

A lot of the bridging systems (including mine) are free at the moment. Some have said how they will charge in the future (not normally that much £20-£40 per annum) and some have not said when their free periods end (it could be never, but I don't quite believe that).

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By paulwakefield1
18th Dec 2018 16:24

Your point is fundamentally fair but Sage are not actually deactivating current functionality as such. They are just not implementing the new requirements in the existing standalone product. MTD functionality is different to the old online submission (it is just a more complex way to achieve exactly what we have been doing for ages i.e. direct submission of a VAT return from software).

I suggest that, rather than upgrade Sage, you explore the various bridging options as and when they become available. There is bound to be a low cost even free option that works even if you have to export to Excel first; there are certainly plenty being touted about at the moment.

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By PAMDILL
20th Dec 2018 09:31

The latest from Sage with regard to the perpetual license is that a client received an invoice for 1 year's Sage Cover Extra, that they did not order, only for me to be told that when I bought them the software it came with one year's cover and this was the automatic renewal.

Now, when was the last time you got 1 year's support with Sage 50 when you bought it, you are lucky to get 30 days suport.

I told Sage that they did not need the Sage cover, only to be told that the MTD module at £30 per month is only available if you have Sage Cover Extra, so that is an extra cost.

There is also the issue where one of my clients uses the Sales Order Processing in Sage 50 and to move to the subscription model, even with my discount is £84/month exc. V.A.T.

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By PAMDILL
20th Dec 2018 16:20

I wonder if I am submitting the VAT Returns through my client manager which will be MTD compliant using my new agent's id for MTD if the clients' returns who are still using the non MTD version will still go ok.

I wonder if it will be worth waiting to find out?

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Replying to PAMDILL:
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By johnhemming
20th Dec 2018 19:08

MTD is running on a new mainframe system and accounts can either be on that system or not. Hence (and this also applies after April) either an account is on the new system or the old one.

If it is on the new one you need to use the API (MTD compliant software does this).

It it is on the old one then you can use the gateway or the old XML interface.

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