SEISS Grants and Accounts What are you noticing

Those who have claimed and profits and general

Didn't find your answer?

This is the time when accounts are coming in for year end. I have noticed how various trades have unaffected profits - which is what the grants were aimed at. But hairdressers and a wine bar etc have worked only 20 weeks out of 52. Not bad eh? Wish I could have done that instead of working double time to do Furlough.

And the plumber. Claimed all three grants and yet has clearly worked throughout. This is mirrored with a fair few clients. I can see the suggestion of repaying as per the box on SA100 will make them bristle.

Replies (15)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

By Paul Crowley
16th Apr 2021 12:16

Nothing in yet
But subbies will owe tax. How can that be?

Thanks (1)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
By Open all hours
16th Apr 2021 21:14

Profit down from £27K to £20K. £14K received from SEISS 1,2&3. Worked at least half usual hours in every month. Todays Subbie will make a January payment for the first time ever.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Open all hours:
By North East Accountant
21st Apr 2021 09:47

For subbies in the past we always got their tax repayment to us, knocked off the fees and sent them the nett.

This year as soon as the books are in they are getting a pro-forma and we'll do the the accounts and tax return when it's paid.

Thanks (1)
By doubletrouble
16th Apr 2021 12:20

As long as they were adversely affected then they were entitled to claim the grants
Must admit though only subbies I have done tax returns for so far are new clients and did not claim the grants so still due a refund

Thanks (0)
By Roland195
16th Apr 2021 13:18

A few I have looked at so far have had the best year (in profit terms anyway) they have ever had & likely will ever have. Part of it is down to what in retrospect was an overly generous method of distributing support to businesses that were still able to operate, some down to simply being in the right place at the right time and also that their staff overheads were effectively removed for a number of months.

They may or may not have been entitled to claim the SEISS grants based, certainly in the case of the first ones and most have claimed a BB loan which has either been used to clear existing debt or finance new assets.

While I don't grudge anyone for making the best of a bad situation, I can't help thinking that this was not the intent even if some will be recouped via taxation.

Thanks (2)
By Duggimon
16th Apr 2021 13:20

It is not a stretch at all to see how businesses could be entitled to claim the grants and yet have unaffected profits by the end of the year.

I'm not going to audit the grant applications, just advise those who may face an issue in future of their position and their options and leave it entirely up to them. The grants go on the tax return so we need the amounts, it's been made clear to us at every turn that HMRC don't expect agent involvement in determining eligibility, so I shall respect their wishes and make the tax return figures the extent of my involvement.

Thanks (3)
By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
16th Apr 2021 13:23

I have done 2 holiday lettings so far who have made a heap of cash with the grants vs normally losing money. They both had much higher prices and occupancy during the normally quiet period post September but the claims were legitimate and based on being listed for business rates.

It surprising how many company clients have claimed the bounce back loans too. One put his £30k on the stock market and is already £6k up by his March year end. Again no rules seem to be broken. He was "affected" by Covid at the time of the application (business right down) but he has since made more than normal in the year.

Thanks (0)
By jonharris999
16th Apr 2021 13:47

At risk of repetition and IMHO:

We will all see lots of people who have been adversely affected and claimed correctly

We will all see lots of people who have done OK or better than a previous year, but claimed correctly nevertheless

We will all see lots of people who were adversely affected but were ineligible for support on some arbitrary technicality or other

We will all see lots of people who are concerned that they claimed incorrectly when they did not

We will all see nobody or almost nobody who actually claimed incorrectly and is liable to repay

Thanks (3)
Replying to jonharris999:
By Tax Dragon
21st Apr 2021 11:04

I hope you are right.

The OP seems already to have found one that bucks your predicted trend, however.

There will be some like this. We need to keep an open mind. Open in both directions.

Thanks (2)
By Adam12345
16th Apr 2021 14:22

Grants 1 & 2 were cast with a fairly wide net and 'adversely affected' was a pretty broad criteria.

The third grant was a much higher bar before a claim could be made.

Subbies that have worked throughout are the ones most likely at risk as their industry was not really that adversely affected, and HMRC will know if they were working in any particular month due to the monthly CIS submissions made by contractors.

Thanks (3)
By codling
16th Apr 2021 15:24

Myself and my partner claimed the first grant, which was justifiable as income was down on the same period the previous year and that year we had to take a substantial amount of time out due to a family bereavement. We did feel that many clients would not pull through - many of whom are in hospitality or holiday related trades and we would be well down overall. The end result is that this has not been the case. None of our clients have gone under so far and in fact records came in quicker than previous years with clients paying us almost immediately so that business has really been on a par with earlier years. The grants clients have had have been a lifesaver in many cases.

Thanks (1)
By Platta
21st Apr 2021 09:57

Picking up on the earlier point about holiday lettings.

I was about to complete on a Holiday let purchase, and was aware that the seller, as the ratepayer registered on 1 April, had been given the £8000 Restart grant. These grants were made to help businesses prepare to reopen, and cope with initial slow demand, so I pushed hard to have the grant handed over, because I was one who would effectively be doing the reopening. The seller took offence and cancelled the sale.

My point is - this person has probably had the best year ever, because the business rates grants were at least as good as her normal income, but without the letting hassle. She will now not spend the Restart Grant because she is remarketing, so we have a situation where an individual is legally entitled to a grant, but is clearly not using it as intended.

The grants have been lifesavers to many, but as accountants we will be finding many others who have had the best year ever - its the luck of the draw.

Thanks (0)
By DaveyJonesLocker
21st Apr 2021 09:58

I've had several with higher turnover and profits but they WERE closed (e.g. beauty salon), just caught up after.
However, HMRC didn't want agents involved in claiming these, the client reviews and signs the tax return, so I won't be commenting on whether they need repaying.

Thanks (1)
By petestar1969
21st Apr 2021 10:27

I did a TR for a plumber subbie who works on new-build houses for a big housebuilder.

He claimed all 3 SEISS grants legitimately.

His normal turnover was down and the grants made it back up to almost what it would normally be.

As the grants aren't subject to CIS, this year he needs to pay just over £2k instead of getting his usual refund of £1,200.

Unlike some though, he is intelligent enough to know he had a tax bill coming and is fine with it..

Thanks (1)
By Silver Birch Accts
21st Apr 2021 14:14

''But hairdressers and a wine bar etc have worked only 20 weeks out of 52. Not bad eh? Wish I could have done that instead of working double time to do Furlough''.

I am sure they would have preferred to have remained open, have you shared this view with your impacted clients.

Thanks (1)