SEISS Overclaim- repayment

SEISS overclaim - repayment

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I have a client who adequately keeps purchases invoices, writes up most sales invoices and does almost all transactions through the business bank account. However he does not write up books and has claimed SEISS 1 to 4 without adding up his turnover at all. I have just completed accounts, turnover down 18% but as a different mix of work and less materials purchases net profit only down by £400!

Would you people reading this  recomended he uses his Gateway account to repay the first three grants or shall I recomend doing  it by the Tax return?

Why HMRC made such a thing about the taxpayer had to make the claims without the assistant of the accounmtant I do not know.

 

Replies (11)

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By User deleted
06th Aug 2021 19:31

The trouble is you are looking at this with hindsight. At the time of applying they maybe genuinely thought they WERE affected.

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By SXGuy
06th Aug 2021 20:28

Nothibg you've said convinces me the client should repay the grants

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By GHarr497688
06th Aug 2021 20:45

He does not need to repay the Grants - if he thought he was entitled at the time then that the end of it. HMRC have not said anything about you doing your Accounts , finding out you have made less or more and based on that you should repay the Grants or claimed. It's nothing to do with the Accountant anyway as it's a business decision .

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By jonharris999
07th Aug 2021 12:26

+1 to all the above. Start by assisting your client to assess each of the rounds in question and you may well find - hard to tell because of the limited info here - that there is no issue of repayment, certainly not in every round.

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By CJaneH
07th Aug 2021 14:01

In reply to GHarr I would have thought that if turnover down only 18% and net profit not at all unless all the recovery was in December to March then he would not be eligible for all three grants. Grant 3 states you must believe you have a significant reduction in profit and keep records to show how your business has been impacted. Just thinking you were effected is not sufficient.
As to it to it not being anything to do with the accountant if our clients have overclaimed the Tax returns we prepare for our clients ask if SEISS has been overclaimed and to state if it has. We cannot submit returns we believe to be wrong.
I was asking for help and guidance, not to be told to not ask pertinent question to enable me to advise my client.

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Replying to CJaneH:
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By jonharris999
07th Aug 2021 14:24

To what are you comparing the turnover reduction and net profit equilibrium?

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Replying to jonharris999:
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By Paul Crowley
07th Aug 2021 15:34

Agree
For 3
Basically is expected actual turnover expected to be less than prior similar period turnover as a result of covid?
Actual turnover irrelevant, belief at the time not hindsight calculation.
Rules on 1 2 and 3 just so vague
And to repay on basis not being entitled is suggesting your client did not read the claim questions at the time and deliberately made a false claim

Consider also if your opinion turns out to be that client should repay and he takes advice from others who disagree, will he make a claim against PII sometime in the next six years?
Does client agree in writing that he made an incorrect claim?
If so probably not a problem

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Replying to CJaneH:
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By GHarr497688
08th Aug 2021 22:46

I don't think its your job to analyse the clients business in this way then sit in judgement of them as though you are a superior being. I said before and I say again it's a business decision not open to audit by you.

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By CJaneH
07th Aug 2021 16:07

I am now looking at the three claims separately and have re-watched Rebecca Bennyworths last presentation which included checking SEISS claims before finalising accounts and tax returns.

I believe the first two claims were OK but I think that the third was made without considering why he expected a significant reduction in profit and keeping a record of his evidence. I agree that the third claim specifically asks you to predict the future which without a crystal ball is difficult.

If the client does decide that the third claim was in error I will recommend the Tax Return route for repayment.

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Replying to CJaneH:
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By Paul Crowley
07th Aug 2021 20:51

I have one on hold on the exact same issue
Not certain
The return, when completed, suggests repayment of SEISS that client was not entitled to.
Yet I really want to suggest that it is a voluntary return of SEISS

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By Duggimon
09th Aug 2021 12:03

There's nothing in the criteria for any of the grants prior to this fifth one that require any comparison with prior periods.

The test was first whether your business was affected by covid, then whether your profits were lower than they would otherwise have been without covid. It is perfectly possible to qualify for all grants while profits go up, because the prior period is irrelevant.

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