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Self employed?

Confused about my employment status

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Hi,

i have been working as an assistant for the past 3 and half years for my dads friend, when i first start he told me he was putting me on his books, but every now and then would tell me im self employed.

it seems like the only thing about my job that a self employed person does is not get paid for holidays. Everything else is what an employed person would do, i get paid a set wage every week and i do not choose how much to charge him for the work, everytime i ask for a wage rise it is a no and a load of excues but then every few months or so he will tell me my wage will go up or that i will get a bonus but this mever happens, if im not in for a week my boss finds someone else to cover and pays them instead of me, i do not choose my hours nor get a choice on what work i want to do but everything ive read makes me feel like i am employed and not self employed.

im now worried about as i do not want to get in any trouble for not registering as self employed but every time i do go to do it i cant figure out how hmrc system works. I would get an account but i currently do not get paid enough to afford one, i dont earn enough to pay tax but i earn enough to National insurance.

im just so confused in what to do as i feel tho he has just says im self employed for his own benefit but he is a friend and do not want to get him into trouble as after all he has given me a job but i just feel it is unfair. I was 19 when i first started working for him.

i would quit the job but honestly I really do like it and dont mind working for him its just st the point where i have left it this long and still have no idea what to do, nobody helps or family who have been self employed wont help me get set up so i just feel stuck on my own worrying im going to get in trouble for it one day. 
 

i need to register as self employed as i know he will tell me he won't register me as employed and most likely questions why i didnt do it 3 years ago as i haven't mentioned it to him due to the reason above 

Replies (22)

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By the_drookit_dug
04th May 2021 12:33

Don't worry, it can be sorted out.

How are you paid? Does he provide you with a pay slip, or do you raise invoices?

Or is it simply a wad of cash in your hand?

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Replying to the_drookit_dug:
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By SXGuy
04th May 2021 12:48

How much are they paid, and does this friend employ anyone else are also good questions to determine status

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By Kikibo
04th May 2021 12:57

Hi, i think he only pays them for the hours they do for him, it is just me who works for him and i get 200 a week for 9-4 monday to friday.

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Replying to the_drookit_dug:
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By Kikibo
04th May 2021 12:58

It’s literally just paid into my bank by direct debit evey week, no payslip or invoices

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By Louisemunro320
04th May 2021 12:52

Try getting a personal tax account with hmrc. It will then show your earnings and from which employer. If he isnt on the list then you can safely assume you are self employed.

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By Louisemunro320
04th May 2021 12:52

Try getting a personal tax account with hmrc. It will then show your earnings and from which employer. If he isnt on the list then you can safely assume you are self employed.

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Replying to Louisemunro320:
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By tom123
04th May 2021 13:00

But self employment is not something in the 'gift' of the employer, surely.

This person is being exploited, and should have the usual employment rights.

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Replying to Louisemunro320:
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By paulhammett
04th May 2021 13:03

I don't agree with your logic. From the facts provided, it would seem that the OP is an employee despite the company not treating him as such.

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Replying to Louisemunro320:
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By kaff
04th May 2021 15:25

I agree with other replies. The fact the employer may not be reporting this to HMRC wouldn’t inevitably mean OP is self-employed. From the facts given it's more likely to mean that the employer is not complying with his obligations.

The advice to OP to check is sensible though - at the very least he should reassure himself that HMRC has a record of NI contributions for future benefits/ state pension eligibility.

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Replying to Louisemunro320:
By Duggimon
05th May 2021 09:49

That's not how that works. Whether he's self employed or employed depends on the terms of the engagement. It sounds to me like he's an employee but the employer is not reporting his wage through RTI.

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By CJaneH
04th May 2021 13:11

From what you have said you should be on a payroll as you are working as an employee. However getting HMRC to visit your employer and force him to set up a payroll is very unlikely.

You need to register as self employed and start paying class 2 NI so you start making contribution into the system to qualify for state benefits including state pension.

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By Paul Crowley
04th May 2021 13:16

Get it sorted soonest.
https://www.gov.uk/register-for-self-assessment/self-employed

You have not yet paid any NI so you now owe the money. You also now have missing years for state pension entitlement.
Self employed NI is usually cheaper than employed NI

Use the correct start date.
Do not ignore the tax returns. You will only have 3 months for a couple of them to be submitted.

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By S Gill
04th May 2021 13:29

As others as said register for an HMRC personal tax account but based on what you are saying you won't be registered as an employee as you haven't received a P60/payslips etc.
As you like your job and don't want to get your dad's friend in trouble perhaps now is the time to get your paperwork in order - either down the self employed route or "on the books" with the appropriate contract in place.
From what you say, it would be fair to think you were an employee in the past so perhaps register as self employed from 6 April 2021 - not technically correct on either side but probably most practicable given the situation and your earnings.

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By frankfx
04th May 2021 13:31

agree , with other posters, get your NIC up todate.

there is more to NIC than just STATE pension , decades down the line.

current / and near future access to other benefits is contribtion history dependent.

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/National-insurance-contributions-(NIC)/What-benefits-do-my-national-insurance-contributio#:~:text=Benefits%20which%20depend%20on%20NIC,Employment%20and%20Support%20Allowance%20(ESA)

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By SteveHa
04th May 2021 15:52

For heaven's sake, I'm particularly surprised at both of Paul's and Frank's replies, since both have been around long enough to know that "Workarounds" are not solutions, especially when it comes to the law.

Based on the OP, there is no question that this is an employment situation, and a desire "not to upset dad's friend" is not an acceptable motive to not only try to work around the system, but to allow someone else to cheat the system at the victim's expense.

Rather, do the HMRC employment status test - https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-employment-status-for-tax/disclaimer- (which will almost certainly say employee) and present them with that, instead. It may be the leverage needed.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
04th May 2021 17:34

You would appear to be working only marginally better than "cash in hand" and unless you are a minor, well below the minimum wage which should give you over £300 for a 35 hour week + 6 weeks paid holiday (including bank holidays)

From a record keeping point of view you would as others not be seen as essentially "nothing" by HMRC or similar, so no right of employment, nothing.

In practice there is probably nothing much you can do than find a reputable employer who pays sick pay, holidays and everything else you should be entitled to rather than what sounds like being exploited.

Your Dad and his friend really cant think much of you to string you along like this and pay you so poorly.

I would not try and registrar as self employed myself as you would appear to be an employee (albeit a badly treated one) and its likely to open up a wall of paperwork you are probably going to struggle to deal with.

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By Tax Dragon
04th May 2021 17:37

FWIW you are being paid less than national minimum wage - another law your Dad's 'friend' is breaking.

Talk to someone. Your Dad? It might stir stuff up. It might be rough in the short term. But doing nothing will end up giving a worse result. (IMHO.)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
By Paul D Utherone
04th May 2021 18:42

Beat me to it.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
RLI
By lionofludesch
04th May 2021 19:19

Tax Dragon wrote:

FWIW you are being paid less than national minimum wage - another law your Dad's 'friend' is breaking.

Talk to someone. Your Dad? It might stir stuff up. It might be rough in the short term. But doing nothing will end up giving a worse result. (IMHO.)

If you don't get a proper wage paid to you, just consult ACAS.

You're being cheated.

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By tom123
04th May 2021 17:56

I think you need to find another job where you are not being exploited.
"self employment" is fine for consultants on £100k pa, but really not correct at your level of earnings.

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Replying to tom123:
By Paul D Utherone
04th May 2021 18:44

...or indeed how you are 'employed'!

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By Duggimon
05th May 2021 09:53

You are an employee. You are being grossly underpaid, illegally underpaid. You should also be getting National Insurance credits and are being done out of those by this "friend".

You are being severely taken advantage of and there are other jobs out there that I'm sure you would also like, don't put up with this shoddy treatment.

The reason this "friend" is not reporting your wages its that they are so low they are illegal, at the very least you should ask for minimum wage and proper payslips, but I would suggest you look for proper employment elsewhere as this "friend" is clearly happy to take advantage of you as much as they are able to get away with.

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