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Spurious DMB Threats

Am I just unlucky ?

Has anyone else had letters from DMB implying that their clients' PAYE affairs are not in order ?

I've had a couple in the last fortnight.  The first was a claim for an underpayment of £220, whereas the client's page on the Gateway shows (correctly) that she was £80 in credit.

I got another last week claiming just under £2,000 - again, the client's page shows something different £2,400 in credit (I don't agree with either of those).

Is it too much to ask HMRC to agree a debt amongst themselves before trying to pursue it ?

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By JoF
17th Jun 2019 08:54

I had two for the same client claiming an underpayment of £240, the gateawy showed nothing owing which was correct.

HMRC's response 'oh well'.

Loving the 'Water cooler' thread tag although waterboarding might be more appropriate with HMRC.

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By Jdopus
17th Jun 2019 09:16

I have been involved in an ongoing fight with HMRC for about a year straight over them continuing to send me completely contradictory statements of my client's PAYE balance and refusing to explain why they can't agree a balance.

One letter gives one balance, a second letter contradicts it and then their online portal gives a third completely different balance - all off by thousands of pounds. I've tried complaining to HMRC about this and they just completely ignored my point about not having a consistent balance and insist their debt collectors are behaving perfectly properly.

I hope someone takes them to a tax tribunal over this behaviour or parliament takes it up because they deserve to be raked over the coals for this sort of thing. No other entity in the world would try to enforce a debt when they can't even present any consistent evidence about the value of the debt.

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17th Jun 2019 09:22

Be at peace and ignore them. I have had a similar letter every 2 months for the last 3 years. They tell me the client is over or under paid. When I've checked payments are up to date and 100% accurate so now I don't bother.
Nothing further will happen.
I suggest you keep a lever arch file to contain all the letters

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By Maslins
to bernard michael
17th Jun 2019 10:10

bernard michael wrote:

Be at peace and ignore them. I have had a similar letter every 2 months for the last 3 years. They tell me the client is over or under paid. When I've checked payments are up to date and 100% accurate so now I don't bother.
Nothing further will happen.


Is there a possibility in this situation that the client's just paying consistently slightly late?
Submission shows liability of £X. Payment due date for £X passes, it's unpaid, automated chaser letter goes out. Day later client pays £X. A few days after that HMRC's notoriously slow post arrives saying £X owed. You check online, payment received, all clear. Next month/quarter, repeat. Just a thought...

But yeah, more generally, the PAYE dept do seem a bit pants. Not that rare we query a figure on the HMRC PAYE portal, and the helpline's response is basically "yeah ignore that, the portal is rubbish".

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17th Jun 2019 10:21

Except that the client always pays on time and in time by a few days.
I used to worry about the letters and tried to sort the problem with HMRC but have now given up as time is too short for their faffing about

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17th Jun 2019 11:03

Yes I had one stating that I owed £832.00 even though it was shown as an 'unallocated credit' which meant HMRC owed me. I had to phone them up for them to correct their files and eventually received a repayment.

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By MJShone
17th Jun 2019 12:42

You shouldn't ignore a balance on the PAYE account that never goes away (even though it might change). It could be that a payment has been incorrectly allocated. You could end up in the position where DMB is threatening legal action such as seizure of assets. DMB never seem to be able to explain how HMRC think the debt has arisen. What employers need to do is track down, via the portal/business dashboard, what months HMRC thinks are "in debt" then raise a disputed charge with the Employer helpline. That way, you engage with someone who might be able to resolve the situation.

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17th Jun 2019 14:04

Had one this morning claiming a client has O/P £6k. They haven't.

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17th Jun 2019 14:26

A client had a HMRC claim of underpayment of PAYE for about £2,400. Spookily like 2 x 1 months payment but not exactly. Client said they had paid everything but HMRC insisted their account was :

2400,2400,2400, 4800, 2400,2400 etc etc

They said it didn't make sense and did they have 2 x returns shown that month. No, apparently just the one for £4800. The client software system showed £2400 being submitted so it wasn't that.

In the end, HMRC hassled them so much they told them to shut up or call on them to be shown their end. They actually did!! And went away tail between their legs as they couldn't explain it.

Only good news, for all the hassle, the problem appears to have gone away.

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17th Jun 2019 22:02

Ach - well - as long as it's not just me .....

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18th Jun 2019 12:23

I'm currently waiting on the phone (that incessant music - when will they change it?).
I've looked into HMRC's computer and found that a client apparently owes thousands. He's rung and they say he doesnt, I've rung and they say he doesnt. None of the figures matched mine for payment/refund or otherwise.
HMRC even asked me whether I was looking into his (HMRC's computer!) or using mine (no idea what he meant).
I'm on to the Online Services helpdesk now as original HMRC bloke suggested...

Well... that was a waste of time... finally got through to be told they couldnt help and would need to report the problem using the ''Get help with using this service' which for those who have never used it (ie me!) is an email box on the main agents page. No idea when this will be sorted out.

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18th Jun 2019 12:54

lionofludesch wrote:

Is it too much to ask HMRC to agree a debt amongst themselves before trying to pursue it ?


Yes, sadly it is
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to Paul D Utherone
18th Jun 2019 13:06

Paul D Utherone wrote:

lionofludesch wrote:

Is it too much to ask HMRC to agree a debt amongst themselves before trying to pursue it ?

Yes, sadly it is

Instead of wondering how clients are going to cope with MTD, perhaps we should start wondering how HMRC are going to cope with it.

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