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Stop MTD now !

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Hello,

With the election getting closer I just started the petition "hmrc: Stop MTD" . If you agree or to have your say add your comments  here

 

https://www.change.org/p/hmrc-stop-mtd?recruiter=725651702&utm_source=sh...

Thanks!
Martin

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By MM Bookkeeping Services
26th May 2017 15:36

Done and emailed link to clients Martin.
However, don't see it being much use but I can live the dream!

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
26th May 2017 15:52

Assuming the result of the election as a foregone conclusion by any chance?

In my opinion, the Conservatives have been pushing MTD for so long there is no chance of getting them to cancel it. Even if there was, this petition contains no persuasive arguments (no arguments at all in fact), and so will just be ignored.

Is there any reason for that? I'm not a great believer in the power of online petitions anyway, but you could at least have gone to the effort of making a case.

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Replying to stepurhan:
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By Peter Cane
26th May 2017 16:34

I agree entirely with stepurhan. I was disappointed how so little in the way of meaningful arguments was included in the petition.
By all means, start a petition but at least make more of a substantial case as to why MTD should be stopped.
As far as I'm aware, it's only Labour who've made any reference to quarterly reporting under MTD in their manifestos.
The Conservatives have mentioned "simplifying the tax system" which can only mean they are going to press on with it. Mind you, based on what we know now about MTD, they obviously have a warped idea of what "simplifying" actually means!
I voted Tory at the last general election on the grounds that they were the best of a bad bunch. Now, I just don't know which way to vote. If I ever see any of my prospective candidates knocking at my door, one of the things I shall be pressing them on will certainly be MTD.

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Replying to Peter Cane:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th May 2017 16:50

Peter Cane wrote:

I voted Tory at the last general election on the grounds that they were the best of a bad bunch. Now, I just don't know which way to vote. If I ever see any of my prospective candidates knocking at my door, one of the things I shall be pressing them on will certainly be MTD.

I may vote for the Yorkshire Party now that I've found out that the candidate lives in the next street. If he gets in, it'll be handy if I need to pop round and given him the benefit of my "advice".

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Replying to Peter Cane:
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By Accountant A
28th May 2017 15:32

Peter Cane wrote:

I voted Tory at the last general election on the grounds that they were the best of a bad bunch. Now, I just don't know which way to vote.

Agreed. Not one party comes close to having a manifesto I could broadly agree with.

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Replying to Accountant A:
RLI
By lionofludesch
28th May 2017 18:48

Surely you've not read them all.

Even the candidates don't do that.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
26th May 2017 16:29

HMRC have spent too much money of their own to back down now. Soon they'll be spending other people's money on this expensive and largely optimistic project.

I was at a VAT visit yesterday and the lady was just as cynical about MTD as we are. Correction of errors, fuel scale charges and partial exemption are all examples of adjustments that need to be made which aren't necessarily recorded as cash basis transactions. It's certainly not as easy as HMRC make out - but then, probably even John the Plumber ever thought it would be easy.

She also described the CIS unit as being "run like Park Hampers". Harsh - but fair.

Thanks (1)
Replying to lionofludesch:
By Democratus
26th May 2017 16:41

lionofludesch wrote:

HMRC have spent too much money of their own to back down now.

Whose money? Our money!

Friday afternoon don't you know. Brain death setting in, but on the upside I am off Monday & Tuesday. Downside, so is Mrs Democratus, but she will probably not divorce me if I can be just a little less annoying than I normally am.

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Replying to Democratus:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
29th May 2017 15:42

Head for the shed, it is what they were invented for, do you really think a 7x5 is needed for a few garden implements?

I spent a pleasant day yesterday moving rubbish from one part of the garden to another part, what warm Sunday's are made for- a cup of tea and a can of juice were provided so I was obviously doing something worthwhile with a high approval rating

However us hardy souls in the North get none of your bank holiday nonsense, so back in at the coalface today.

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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
29th May 2017 17:05

I don't understand bank holidays personally, but I believe the Scots and (Northern) Irish see bank holidays as negotiable. Happy to recognise their own holidays but cheerfully join in everyone else's party if it means another day off work.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By MM Bookkeeping Services
29th May 2017 18:10

Er, don't judge all Scots the same please!
Maybe the ones you know/have known have given you this impression but I can assure you this is not the case.

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By Tim Vane
26th May 2017 16:40

"Forcing all businesses to report their transactions every quarter is onerous and unnecessary."

You forgot "not fair" and "I'm going to tell my Mummy".

Thanks (1)
Replying to Tim Vane:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th May 2017 16:47

It's all about the potential penalties, Tim.

That's what attracts HMRC.

Money where they can say "we didn't want to charge you this money - we just wanted you to fill in the forms".

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Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
26th May 2017 17:48

No!

Bring it on!!

Kerchiinnngggg!!!

Thanks (3)
Replying to Kent accountant:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th May 2017 18:04

Kent accountant wrote:

No!

Bring it on!!

Kerchiinnngggg!!!

Somehow no less than I expected.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By SpreadsheetUser
27th May 2017 06:53

It's a shame his client base can't see this so they know he's more interested in money than the clients' interests

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Replying to SpreadsheetUser:
RLI
By lionofludesch
27th May 2017 08:37

I'm a chartered accountant.

Not a double glazing salesman.

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Replying to SpreadsheetUser:
Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
27th May 2017 10:38

You need to lighten up.

MTD is coming its a case of when and in what form.

I'd suggest you ditch the spreadsheets and get some decent software.

;o)

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Replying to Kent accountant:
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By SpreadsheetUser
28th May 2017 18:45

If you find software that's quicker for doing accounts for smaller businesses I would change. Though I don't need to as HMRC don't require me to

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Replying to Kent accountant:
RLI
By lionofludesch
29th May 2017 20:28

I have several nuts for which I find a nutcracker adequate.

I rarely resort to a sledgehammer.

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By Marion Hayes
27th May 2017 09:41

Sitting on the same page as a petition calling to imprison or deport the 3000 people on the terrorist watchlist hardly adds credibility.
This election should, and I expect will, remain about Brexit - we have then got 5 years to watch their performance on all matters and just maybe by then someone will come along with the potential to deal with everyday matters.
The UK will have settled down again and be starting to reshape the future which is where the effects of MTD, Welfare changes, Tory policies and Labour Opposition will have an effect on the voting. Making sure our politicians are kept up to speed with the daily impact MTD has on our clients and, almost more importantly, non-clients will show them how the voting could change if MTD is a disaster waiting to happen.
I think we are past the STOP MTD headline and should be into the SUPPORT MTD where we will not be the cause of it crashing but will reserve the right to say I TOLD YOU SO

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Replying to Marion Hayes:
RLI
By lionofludesch
27th May 2017 10:38

Marion Hayes wrote:

Sitting on the same page as a petition calling to imprison or deport the 3000 people on the terrorist watchlist hardly adds credibility.

Internment, of course, is not unknown in this country.

Though I never agreed with its scatter-gun approach personally.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By Marion Hayes
27th May 2017 11:52

As well as America, Germany, Japan, etc etc etc
Wait - wasn't one of the reasons I voted for Brexit personal freedoms. The concept of being extradited without meeting our burden of proof of a crime was abhorrent to me and now we want to avoid it ourselves too? We have lived with terrorist threats as long as I can remember and I still refuse to let them change my life even though they are different terrorists.
Which brings us back to MTD as it is the mandatory aspect I object to most strongly.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
29th May 2017 15:45

Whilst I do blame those in HMRC driving MTD I really think internment is a step too far-public stocks is another matter!!

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Locutus of Borg
By Locutus
28th May 2017 16:56

A lot of time and effort was made by accountants / businesses / software companies / professional bodies in the HMRC consultation and representations were made before a House of Lords Committee. Both of which seem to have achieved virtually nothing.

A number of accountants have corresponded with politicians with what appears to be much the same result.

MTD has not registered as an issue in the General Election.

No end of well-meaning petitions will make the slightest amount of difference, particularly as the Treasury and HMRC don't really understand or care about the difficulties some taxpayers will face.

We tried, but the war is over.

Even though I don't agree with many fundamental aspects of MTD, I would prefer to devote my time with my clients / potential clients in offering a solution to MTD.

But I will have to be harsh. They either adapt to the new reality, or they will have to find another accountant. I will also charge them more for providing that solution. If they don't like the fees, they will have to go elsewhere.

What HMRC does with all of those taxpayers who cannot adapt and who cannot find an accountant willing to work with them will have to be HMRC's problem to sort out.

Thanks (2)
Replying to Locutus:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
29th May 2017 15:53

Locutus wrote:

We tried, but the war is over.

But, you have not considered the ultimate 1970s film, Animal House. (it is nowhere near as good watching it now-maybe I have slightly grown up since the late 70s)

Bluto

"What? Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!...

It ain't over now, 'cause when the goin' gets tough, the tough get goin'. Who's with me? Let's go! Come on!...

(He ran to the front door but no one followed him, he returned, chastising his frat brothers)

" What the f--k happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst. 'Ooh, we're afraid to go with you, Bluto, we might get in trouble.' (shouting) Well, just kiss my [***] from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...

Otter

"Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now, we could fight 'em with conventional weapons. That could take years and cost millions of lives. No, in this case, I think we have to go all out. I think this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."

"We're just the guys to do it...LET'S DO IT!"

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Replying to DJKL:
Locutus of Borg
By Locutus
29th May 2017 22:53

I think this phase of the war (trying to stop MTD) is over.

The next phase will start when MPs' surgeries start filling up with honest taxpayers who say they simply don't understand what to do and can't find an accountant prepared to act for them for a fee they consider acceptable.

And HMRC will be puzzled why the black economy has grown when MTD was supposed to do the opposite.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Locutus:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
30th May 2017 09:32

Methinks you underestimate how low the accountancy profession can be made to go, it will prostitute itself to the fees irrespective of their low level.

The work will be amended to the fee that can be charged rather than the work done properly and charged accordingly. You or I may not accommodate at the bottom of the food chain but out there someone will.

Of course no guarantees re competence, ethics or training, given tight fees actual work done checking clients records may be negligible, but someone somewhere will stack em high sell em cheap.

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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
30th May 2017 09:44

Young people today, eh?

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Replying to DJKL:
Tornado
By Tornado
30th May 2017 10:12

I think you are probably right.

It is only to be expected of course.

As HMRC don't understand tax and accounting, MTD is just their ignorant version of how things should be. As a consequence, standards are not expected to be high in the first place and so you are regarded as a bit of an idiot if you try to work to a standard that is not required.

Although my desire is to carry out top quality work for my clients, my efforts are continually frustrated by those who should know better but generally do not have a clue what I am talking about.

This is not because I am particularly clever, I am not, but I find that I am inclined to go with the flow these days. If HMRC want rubbish, then rubbish is what they will get. No point in fighting it.

Rubbish in Rubbish out, that is digitalisation for you. Let us hope the MTD computers are better protected than the British Airways ones otherwise it will be rubbish in and nothing out.

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Replying to DJKL:
By Democratus
31st May 2017 11:35

Toga Toga Toga

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
30th May 2017 10:11

I think Locutus is correct. The day for trying to stop MTD have long since passed.

It is going to happen, it may get delayed 12 months, the final format and entry levels may get tweaked but there is no road back.

Far better off investing your time in how you are going to make it work for your own business and that of your clients than signing a petition that no one is will take any notice of.

Thanks (1)
paddle steamer
By DJKL
30th May 2017 10:53

It has taken it a while to sink into my brain but suddenly twigged that STOP MTD sounds akin to an advertising campaign, like STOP STDs.

The similarity does not stop there, both will cause discomfort and both may concern a rash. (judgement in the case of MTD)

They are also both things people may very much regret post event and contracting either does tend to mean one has been ******.

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Replying to DJKL:
Tornado
By Tornado
30th May 2017 11:19

My favourite one is the Lollipop Ladies and Men who carry round a sign saying 'STOP CHILDREN'

I always wondered if this was a protest from older folk or an advert for the family planning clinic (remember those).

There is every opportunity for misinterpretation.

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Replying to Tornado:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
30th May 2017 12:06

My father was always amused by instructions on jar lids which had instructions like "press sides and push off", he often wondered, if he were to follow them ,how his constricting his waist and departing would open the jar.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By MM Bookkeeping Services
30th May 2017 11:27

Your comments made me laugh - and very true they are.
At least if you give up accountancy you could do standup comedy?

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Replying to MM Bookkeeping Services:
Tornado
By Tornado
30th May 2017 11:38

With HMRC being a rich source of material, it could work!

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Replying to Tornado:
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By MM Bookkeeping Services
30th May 2017 12:17

You could do it too and whilst your comments are very true they are also very funny! Just like Billy Connolly - his stories were taken from real life incidents! (I used to work for the same agency when he first started out)

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Replying to MM Bookkeeping Services:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
30th May 2017 12:34

Loved Billy Connolly when I was younger, Harry Campbell and the Heavies and The Crucifixion sit indelibly in my mind, as does Mhari's Wedding-Appreciate, Connolly, Appreciate. (The heavy handed piano teacher thumping out the chords was not far away from the music teacher at my own school)

Whilst obviously West Coast influenced it worked as , albeit maybe not as colourful, and certainly with different accents, the characters often resonated with those say seen in Leith etc

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Replying to DJKL:
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By MM Bookkeeping Services
30th May 2017 14:30

Leith? Oh those were the days! Although I am now in Tayside I was born and lived in Edinburgh for 33 years.
Went to Trinity Academy (when it was fee paying!) and lived in Granton near the harbour. Grandfather was harbourmaster I was told, hence the reason for living there even years after he had passed away.
Going back to Edinburgh in July for a visit of all the old haunts - probably be disappointed as everything will have changed as I have not been back for at least 10 years.

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Replying to MM Bookkeeping Services:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
30th May 2017 15:48

Well, certain coincidences.

Trinity Academy is still there as I live just over the road and down a bit in Summerside, the primary school is where I vote, my kids went to primary at Holy Cross on Craighall Road just down the road from the High School.

Last ten years not vast changes (allotments in part Victoria Park) -most happened the 10 years pre 2007. The Fort flats are no more though they have kept the walls and gatehouse, my Grandfather was posted there in the 1930s (RASC) , reason we ended up in Edinburgh, Army family.

RNR Claverhouse still looking gloomy on Granton Square, I think it is still operational, my dad was an officer there in the 1950s and 1960s.

Peacock in very changed-it had a fire, have not been in since but I am down the Starbank this evening for a committee meeting.

Developments along the front at Granton have in the main not progressed quickly last ten years, Western Harbour still partly developed partly gap sites waiting for something to happen, though further round at Salamander Street flats have developed, plus down at yje junction Newhaven Road/Bonnington Road (Old Comet site)

Further round The Shore has gentrified a bit further, choose you Michelin star restaurant, Tom Kitchin or Martin Wishart.

By another quirk of fate my Grandfather on my mother's side was Tayside after WW1, lived at Barnhill, Broughty Ferry. He had a tailors shop in the Hilltown though his family were actually from Perth and then Rannoch before that.

Small world.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By MM Bookkeeping Services
31st May 2017 13:05

Thanks for the info.
I remember the Claverhouse - went to a few Christmas parties there as a child in the late 1950's.
Used to live along the road in East Cottages - now called Lower Granton Road - they belonged to the Duke of Buccleugh at one time.
My granny was offered the chance to buy hers in approx. 1973/74 for £900! I wish I had bought it then but £900 was a fortune as the weekly wages were only about £5.00 and I was too scared to ask the bank for a loan!
Starbank Park was where I used to go to roll my Easter eggs!
Now, as you say 'small world' - I live only 3 to 4 miles from Barnhill and drive through it most days on the way to beach to walk Ben (Black Lab). Don't venture to the Hilltown though as a bit like West Pilton back in the day if you get my drift.
Can't wait now to come to Edinburgh in July - will visit Wardie Primary and take a walk down the Wardie Steps which I used to do twice a day many years ago.
OMG I even remember the trams at Granton Square and the building in the middle of the square used to be a fishmonger place where they cleaned and gutted the fish and you could buy it fresh. My granny used to buy winkles and sprats - oh couldn't eat them now!
Anyway enough of me rambling on and once again thanks for the update.

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Replying to MM Bookkeeping Services:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
31st May 2017 15:52

Well, as you wander down Wardie Steps (the hotel at foot has become flats) as you get down to Wardie Square the first cottage garden you get to on your left near the bottom of the steps(with a funny shaped back yard and the old outside toilet block behind it) used to be my father's Edinburgh pied a terre until the steep internal stairs got too much for him and we got him a small flat nearer our house for when he came into town.

The fish seller had a lock up unit at the foot of Granton Road to the side of Claverhouse until not that long ago but have not spotted it recently so may be gone.

I also went to the odd Christmas party at Claverhouse but in the 1960s, do you remember Killiekrankie, their minesweeper?

Re Duke of Buccleuch, I think my father's firm used to do some of their legal work so in 1974 it could have been his firm, Melville & Lindesay W.S. ,that would have done the conveyancing if you had proceeded ?

Starbank park is still there-good slope for the eggs, also on LGR the embankment was demolished so much better view across Lower Granton Road to the Forth these days.

I hope you really enjoy your visit and nostalgia trip.

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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
31st May 2017 16:40

DJKL wrote:

Re Duke of Buccleuch, I think my father's firm used to do some of their legal work so in 1974 it could have been his firm, Melville & Lindesay W.S. ,that would have done the conveyancing if you had proceeded ?

I stayed at the Buccleuch Arms in St Boswells once. Very good menus.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
31st May 2017 17:09

The catch is that by the time I say get to Melrose/ St Boswells I am too near home to bother stopping so I rarely eat in the Borders

I used to usually stop in either Stow or Newtown St Boswells when visiting Borders clients (we had a few farm clients years ago) but that was because my aunt and uncle lived there; however a cup of coffee and a biscuit tended to be the culinary highlight.

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By SteveHa
31st May 2017 13:07

I was always a Jasper Carrott man myself. I still reel when he goes through life and decides he died last Tuesday.

Oh, and I will always have a soft spot for Mike Harding's 14.5lb budgie, though I'm not allowed to listen to it whilst driving - it makes me accident prone on account of the blurred vision from the tears of laughter.

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Replying to SteveHa:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
31st May 2017 17:22

Well as long as the only dampness arising from your mirth is around your eyes.

I did like Jasper Carrott, Mike Harding was only rarely on the box, or maybe I just missed most of his shows.

The other tale teller I really liked was Victoria Wood, was never that fussed re her sitcoms but as a stand up she was superb.

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