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Surely this would be fraud

Client told me about a friend of his who was cheating the JRS

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Saw a client tnis morning to collect his VAT paperwork. Told me of a friend of his who's accountant told him to say he was only working 2 days a week and his dad 3 days a week to get furlough money when they were both working 5 days a week.

Surely this would be fraud and the accountant if bought to task would be struck off?

Replies (37)

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By Wanderer
16th Jun 2021 15:45

Yes.
And if you believe your client then you also now need to complete a SAR.

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Replying to Wanderer:
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By 0098087
16th Jun 2021 16:05

So i'm supposed to get his friends info?

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Replying to 0098087:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
16th Jun 2021 16:54

No - you don't need to make a report if don't know the identity of the person involved (and none of the information that you hold could be used to identify them).

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By Paul Crowley
16th Jun 2021 15:47

Agree
Tarnishes the trade when cheats give out those ideas.
The 'accountant' is encouraging theft from all taxpayers.

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By AdamMurphy
16th Jun 2021 15:52

It could be more likely the client's friend decided to lie without any involvement from the accountant and are simply using him as a scapegoat.

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Replying to AdamMurphy:
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By 0098087
16th Jun 2021 16:05

Nope it was the accountant

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Replying to 0098087:
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By justsotax
16th Jun 2021 16:13

were you in the room when the 'advice' was given?

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Replying to justsotax:
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By AdamMurphy
16th Jun 2021 16:18

you beat me to it!

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Replying to justsotax:
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By 0098087
16th Jun 2021 16:27

Nope

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Replying to 0098087:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
16th Jun 2021 16:33

So you've seen the written advice from the accountant instead?

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
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By 0098087
16th Jun 2021 16:49

No
As I said the client told me his friend had told him this was the advice his accountant gave

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Replying to 0098087:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
16th Jun 2021 16:55

So how do you know that the accountant gave the advice?

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Replying to 0098087:
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By Leywood
17th Jun 2021 09:31

You've clearly never grade of Chinese whispers

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Replying to 0098087:
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By Mr_awol
17th Jun 2021 15:03

0098087 wrote:

No
As I said the client told me his friend had told him this was the advice his accountant gave

I have a friend who regularly tells me that his accountant calls him to tell him 'you've earned too much money, your tax is going to be too high, you need to buy a van'

I doubt very much this actually happens of course, and so would take third hand information (especially about cunning tax saving methods) with a hefty pinch of salt.

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Replying to Mr_awol:
RLI
By lionofludesch
17th Jun 2021 15:30

Mr_awol wrote:

0098087 wrote:

No
As I said the client told me his friend had told him this was the advice his accountant gave

I have a friend who regularly tells me that his accountant calls him to tell him 'you've earned too much money, your tax is going to be too high, you need to buy a van'

I doubt very much this actually happens of course, and so would take third hand information (especially about cunning tax saving methods) with a hefty pinch of salt.

Buying a van would be great advice if paying less tax were the only consideration.

Unfortunately, it isn't.

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Replying to Mr_awol:
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By Paul Crowley
17th Jun 2021 15:50

The trouble is some clients believe what their mates accountants are purported to say.

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Mr_awol
18th Jun 2021 11:03

Indeed.

My point was, of course, that i have a friend who is either talking nonsense (probably) or has an idiot for an accountant - as such, maybe the OP does too.

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Replying to AdamMurphy:
RLI
By lionofludesch
16th Jun 2021 18:39

AdamMurphy wrote:

It could be more likely the client's friend decided to lie without any involvement from the accountant and are simply using him as a scapegoat.

Why would the gormless haporth of nowt say owt ?

Bragging about your crimes ? Bless me !

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
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By frankfx
16th Jun 2021 17:28
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Replying to Wilson Philips:
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By Cathy Milligan
18th Jun 2021 11:23

BRILLIANT

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By bernard michael
17th Jun 2021 09:21

This is what happens when you relax the rules on pubs. Up pops MDTP from his hibernation

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By bernard michael
17th Jun 2021 09:23

This is what happens when Boris relaxes the rules on pub opening and MDTP wakes up after hibernation

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By bernard michael
17th Jun 2021 09:23

This is what happens when Boris relaxes the rules on pub opening and MDTP wakes up after hibernation

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By bernard michael
17th Jun 2021 09:23

This is what happens when Boris relaxes the rules on pub opening and MDTP wakes up after hibernation

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Replying to bernard michael:
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By bernard michael
17th Jun 2021 09:34

bernard michael wrote:

This is what happens when Boris relaxes the rules on pub opening and MDTP wakes up after hibernation

Can't get rid of the duplications

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Replying to bernard michael:
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By Hugo Fair
17th Jun 2021 11:11

Are you suggesting that when the rules on pub opening are relaxed, then MDTP starts procreating all over the place?

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By bernard michael
17th Jun 2021 11:27

Hugo Fair wrote:

Are you suggesting that when the rules on pub opening are relaxed, then MDTP starts procreating all over the place?

Exactly - long may he continue to prosper for both the hospitality and accountancy industries

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By john hextall
18th Jun 2021 10:16

The client's friend neglected to mention the subsequent sentence - "Of course, if you did that it would be fraud and I'd have to report it to HMRC". Some people will believe anything.

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Replying to john hextall:
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By 0098087
18th Jun 2021 10:27

not sure there was one

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Replying to 0098087:
By Silver Birch Accts
18th Jun 2021 11:06

Just ignore all the gubbins clients tell you.If I had one pound for every piece of gubbins related to me, by clients, then I would own another two islands in the West Indies, to go with the one I do own (I wish)
The current favourite, in my small town, is the Super Deduction. I have heard so many twists and variations on this to enable me to write a book called 'The Myths and Legends of the Super Deduction'
I am certain that one bloke is guilty of this, tying to lead astray my impressionable young plumbers, electricians and builders.I then receive calls from the wives, who sensibly, want to check the gubbins with me. I suspect the local builders merchants is the natural hunting ground of this bloke. If I had time I would catch the blighter in the act and read to him (could be a her, that would be a first) the actual legislation relating to the accursed Super Deduction.

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Replying to Silver Birch Accts:
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By bernard michael
18th Jun 2021 11:30

Silver Birch Accts wrote:

Just ignore all the gubbins clients tell you.If I had one pound for every piece of gubbins related to me, by clients, then I would own another two islands in the West Indies, to go with the one I do own (I wish)
The current favourite, in my small town, is the Super Deduction. I have heard so many twists and variations on this to enable me to write a book called 'The Myths and Legends of the Super Deduction'
I am certain that one bloke is guilty of this, tying to lead astray my impressionable young plumbers, electricians and builders.I then receive calls from the wives, who sensibly, want to check the gubbins with me. I suspect the local builders merchants is the natural hunting ground of this bloke. If I had time I would catch the blighter in the act and read to him (could be a her, that would be a first) the actual legislation relating to the accursed Super Deduction.


All you have to do is walk into the local pub the young clients use and ask the bar staff if anyone can help you with a tax problem. Up MDTP will pop and you can have a meaningful conversation about the more esoteric parts of tax law. Be strong and don't drink with him or you might start thinking he's right
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Morph
By kevinringer
21st Jun 2021 11:45

Are we actually talking furlough here? A lot of self-employed claimants have been referring to SEISS as 'furlough'. OP refers to the client's friend's accountant. If the friend was an employee he'd be unlikely to have an accountant. So maybe the friend is claiming SEISS? The difference is important because you can claim SEISS whilst still working, as long as you meet all the other conditions.

If this is furlough, and you have suspicion a crime has been committed, you need too consider a SAR. That doesn't mean you have to be a detective and obtain evidence: you just report the information you have. You are required to report suspicion that you obtain whilst working in a professional capacity, not obtained in a personal capacity. So that rules out gossip from the mate down the pub but would rule in gossip from a client if you have suspicion a crime has been committed. David Winch often comments in ML threads on AW, hopefully he may pick this one up too.

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By tom123
21st Jun 2021 11:58

I once worked for a company that bought 20 Merc vans, (before I joined) and ripped all the working capital out of the company for 10 years.

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By tom123
21st Jun 2021 11:58

I once worked for a company that bought 20 Merc vans, (before I joined) and ripped all the working capital out of the company for 10 years.

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Replying to tom123:
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By Hugo Fair
21st Jun 2021 13:08

Bit like New York, N.Y. ... so good they tried it twice?

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By tom123
21st Jun 2021 13:19

Aren't computers hateful things! :)

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