Suspect my employer is understating hours worked

Best way forward?

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Currently working remotely and have been emailed monthly hours to prepare CJRS claim.

However, no hours have been listed for some furloughed employees who I'm pretty certain have been working in July as they've been in correspondence with me regarding various work matters.

I suspect they've been deliberately omitted to maximise the grant (there's a lot of belt-tightening at the moment), but I'm not sure how best to proceed. A phone call to sort it out would probably result in me being provided with made up, possibly understated numbers with no back up on my part other than a file note. Should I just address the matter by email to leave a trail?

Really concerned about being used to submit a claim based on fudged figures.

Replies (5)

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By paul.benny
25th Jul 2020 10:59

As you say, emailing to request missing data gives a trail that can give you some protection. I wouldn't make any accusation of dishonesty although you might want to mention that you thought so-and-so had been working this month.

You don't indicate your role but I would suggest that unless you have a senior position, asking 'are you sure there's nothing missing' is enough to keep you out of trouble with HMRC.

I would , though, keep copies of the emails. That will mean you have some evidence should the worst happen and you need to make an employment tribunal claim.

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Replying to paul.benny:
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By Wilson Philips
25th Jul 2020 11:41

I agree. I would simply say something along the lines of “I note that X isn’t listed this month but I thought that they were working. Is this correct?”

Leave it at that and let the employer confirm the position.

Of course, if the employer states categorically that X was not doing any work, but you have factual evidence that they were (in an income-generating capacity) you might want to consider your position. If it’s just suspicion, let it go.

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By jonharris999
25th Jul 2020 14:41

I agree.

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
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By gillybean04
26th Jul 2020 15:14

Quote:

I agree. I would simply say something along the lines of “I note that X isn’t listed this month but I thought that they were working. Is this correct?”

Leave it at that and let the employer confirm the position.

Of course, if the employer states categorically that X was not doing any work, but you have factual evidence that they were (in an income-generating capacity) you might want to consider your position. If it’s just suspicion, let it go.

The direction is that they need to cease all work in relation to their employment, not just revenue generating work.

If they've been corresponding via email about work related matters, that would likely be work in relation to their employment. Even if done off their own back.

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By SBS33
30th Jul 2020 18:00

One of my clients told me that some of his business associates have told him they furloughed themselves and some staff even though they carried on working, and he then said straight out that he wished he had done the same thing.

I told him I was very glad he did not, because that is fraud (and I would not have submitted the claim).

It's such a tricky line we walk with some clients, but if you know for a fact that you are being asked to submit a false claim, you are part of the fraud - effectively helping someone to cheat the government, and the taxpayers footing the bill (we're going to be paying for this a long time...)

If my client gave me false information (says that someone didn't work when they actually did), I would tell them that I wouldn't be able to submit the claim as I was aware that person was actually working (provided of course I had proof, like work-related correspondence). They would then have a choice to alter the claim or stop being my client.

Not questioning whether or not the new iPad they bought is actually being used for the business is one thing, but knowing the information you are submitting for government grants or loans is fraudulent is another. No one wants to lose a job at a time like this, but it makes me very sad when accountants and other financial specialists become complicit with deceitful clients.

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