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Switching client, already MTD - new agent process

Not a question, just a heads up

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New client switched to us who is already signed into MTD for VAT.

Spent a good few days becoming frustrated at the normal easy online agent authorisation process not working which was giving the answer 'failed'.

Checked the normal stuff like date of reg, last return submitted etc but couldn't get to work.

Light bulb moment thinking that of course if HMRC could mess up something that had worked for eons as part of their digital revolution then they would do so.

Sure enough there is a new process to be added as an agent if the client is already in MTD.

Follow this link https://www.gov.uk/guidance/authorise-new-clients-for-your-agent-services-account

Log in with new ASA gateway code. Put in the clients VAT details then they get an email which they MUST click and log in with their own BTA credentials. Lots of assumptions by HMRC that clients have emails and BTA's going on here, but never mind its the future, innit.

(To be fair it was easier than waiting for the letter to be issued, client saying they never received it etc etc).

Client instantly appeared on my Agent Services Account the second they clicked the email (not my Online Services for Agents Account (yes HMRC you are total muppets for your naming conventions)) and software switched on successfully.

Looks like the phase out of the old gateway has started as MTD clients won't appear in your old VAT client list so everything will have to be done in the new ASA. Lucky they built such a super awesome ASA for live date.............

Replies (13)

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By Cloudcounter
11th Oct 2019 09:59

Thank you - that is very helpful

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By Rick Deckard
11th Oct 2019 10:32

Another pointer, the client can have their VAT account setup on a Personal or Business login (even for companies). So the link can fail unless you pick the right one - which of course you don't know which one it is unless it fails.

If you don't know that it can just seem to be failing completely when it will actually work, just change the client type and retry.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
11th Oct 2019 11:08

That's really useful, thanks for pointing it out.

So if the client doesn't have a BTA..................

I assume we are back on paper 64-8's?

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
By Duggimon
11th Oct 2019 11:46

I registered a BTA for a client yesterday (he was in the office with me, I wasn't just doing it for my own benefit) and it took all of three minutes to complete.

VAT online accounts don't seem to require the authentication PIN sent out by mail, the functionality was available immediately.

We were doing it to set up his d/d, I'm not 100% sure you can immediately add an agent or if that requires additional registration for the "manage details" service under the VAT login.

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By johnhemming
11th Oct 2019 11:40

I have spent some time talking to HMRC to understand the new processes.

As I understand it the plan for the new authorisation process (which works through the Agents API or using a link via the ASA) is that it will over time replace the 64-8 for the appointment of agents for any one tax.

However, at the moment the new system only transfers a new client onto the new agents ASA. It does not act as a generalised appointment of an agent in the same way as the pin number or the 64-8 does. Hence if you want to phone up HMRC on behalf of your client you will also have to do the other system.

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By NewACA
15th Oct 2019 11:30

"
It does not act as a generalised appointment of an agent in the same way as the pin number or the 64-8 does. Hence if you want to phone up HMRC on behalf of your client you will also have to do the other system.
"
Yes, that is my understanding too. Therefore, in my mind accountants are wasting their time with the new digital authorisation, as they will additionally have to apply for the old 64-8 in addition if they want to be the VAT agent.

The only reason I might use the new method, is if for some reason a new client needs to file a VAT Return by us asap, and we cannot wait for the VT 64-8 code to come in the post.

This new digital authorisation is really therefore only a Beta test for HMRC to know that some of it is working before they add on additional functionality.

New clients you authorise by 64-8 are automatically available for you to access their MTD VAT account, if you have previously linked your ASA to your old Agent Government Gateway.

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Replying to NewACA:
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By johnhemming
15th Oct 2019 12:17

NewACA wrote:

This new digital authorisation is really therefore only a Beta test for HMRC to know that some of it is working before they add on additional functionality.


I would not say that. I think it is a question moreso of HMRC changing their internal systems so that the new appointment system feeds into the old data.

I can see the argument that if you are going to do 64-8 then you might as well not do the other one. However, as a process one takes minutes and the other takes over a week and possibly two weeks.

Everyone, of course, can establish their own procedures for this. However, as the one process is really fast it is worth using it.

I have not managed to find out when the planned date is for extending the new process so it handles all of 64-8.

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RedFive
By RedFive
15th Oct 2019 12:17

With due respect there are a couple of respondents who have missed the point of my post.

It now seems to be impossible to apply to be an agent via the online services account (the old way).

My request keeps getting the response 'failed'.

Can anyone confirm whether they have successfuly applied to be an agent for VAT for a client ALREADY signed into MTD via the 'old' gateway process?

I appreciate there may be only a small number of clients who have switched Acc's post MTD so the sample audience may be low.

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Replying to RedFive:
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By johnhemming
15th Oct 2019 12:18

That's an interesting point. Obviously it remains possible to do a manual 64-8. That, however, will take a lot longer.

I will try to find out what HMRC's view is on this.

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Replying to RedFive:
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By johnhemming
21st Oct 2019 17:07

HMRC have confirmed this to me.

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By johnhemming
22nd Oct 2019 10:20

Now I have a confirmation from HMRC about the pin number system and MTD I have written a summary article on Industry Insights which is here:
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/community/industry-insights/hmrc-confirm...

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RedFive
By RedFive
22nd Oct 2019 11:34

Thanks John - very helpful, and that confirms the point I was making in my OP.

Crazy situation that due to the digitalisation of VAT we now need to send a paper form in order to speak on behalf of the client.

I’m sure I won’t be the last person to query this so hopefully this thread helps agents in the future until hmrc update the ASA authority to cover everything.

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Replying to RedFive:
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By johnhemming
22nd Oct 2019 16:04

I have fed your valid concerns to HMRC.

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