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Tax calculation amendment

Following on from the self employed grant

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So, we have a client who was one who received an amended tax calculation from HMRC where they had doubled up the seiss grant. It turned a £1600 repayment (due to CIS) into a £300 bill.

We wrote to HMRC advising that it was wrong and asked them to correct. The taxpayer phoned HMRC yesterday and HMRC said they won't amend their calculation, we had to file an amended return. 

I am astonished by this. Surely they should amend the calculation that they've got wrong. I did file an amended return as the taxpayer needs the money.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
22nd Sep 2021 10:41

What did you amend from your original submission ?

If you had SEISS in the wrong box, I agree with HMRC that it was up to you to amend.

If you had SEISS in the right box and HMRC doubled it, I'd agree it was up to HMRC to amend.

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By 0098087
22nd Sep 2021 10:51

I had it in the correct box. They added it in twice.

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Replying to 0098087:
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By Southwestbeancounter
23rd Sep 2021 14:15

So basically your 'amendment' was actually submitting exactly the same figures in exactly the same boxes again but marking it as an amendment so that it would sort out HMRC's issue for them?!

If that is the case, which appears like it is, I wish the tabloids would get hold of stories like this!

You couldn't make it up!!

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Replying to Southwestbeancounter:
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By 0098087
23rd Sep 2021 14:38

That's exactly correct

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By Southwestbeancounter
23rd Sep 2021 17:04

Crazy isn't it?!

And all the while clients think we've gone completely mad as they keep getting revised assessments through etc! Ugh!!

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By rmillaree
22nd Sep 2021 11:05

I vote/guess for wrong box used and that the software used for submission was a certain IRIS product that misses the important "but not SEISS" text from the any other business income box description from within the package - if any other income box was used it should not have been used as there is another specific correct box for only SEISS income.

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Replying to rmillaree:
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By 0098087
22nd Sep 2021 11:15

Nope was in the correct SEISS grant box.

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Replying to 0098087:
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By rmillaree
22nd Sep 2021 11:49

If the SEISS grant is in the correct box (27.1 or 70.1)and is not duplicated elsewhere then the return is correct and there is nothing to correct - having said that submitting exactly what you have previously submitted may fix the hmrc gremlins if the totals simply need refreshing - that may be an easier starting point than trying to get hmrc to take responsibility for their internal issues. Note i wouldnt trust what clients have been told by hmrc - ringing agent helpline and advise you reject their amendment to the return clearly explaining why might if you are lucky start the ball rolling ref getting things corrected possible raising complaint if they are being balshy.

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Replying to rmillaree:
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By 0098087
22nd Sep 2021 11:54

there was an issue last month where calculations were coming out for a number of clients where they were double counting the grant even though it was in the correct box. We had to write to amend half a dozen of them.
Our returns were correct. HMRC had made the mistake.

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By SteveHa
22nd Sep 2021 13:18

TMA 1970 S9ZB.

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By Hugo Fair
22nd Sep 2021 13:28
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Replying to Hugo Fair:
By SteveHa
22nd Sep 2021 13:35

Perhaps I should have been specific.

TMA 1970 S9ZB(4)

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By Hugo Fair
22nd Sep 2021 17:06

Sorry, went for a walk.
Anyway, I now see where you're coming from ... but am not sure what in practice the taxpayer is meant to do (having "given notice rejecting the correction").
If the scenario is as I've suggested in my post at 13:23 then what happens to the incorrect values (created by HMRC but uncorrected by taxpayer update submission) ... i.e. how do you force HMRC to actually correct the mess they've made?

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
By SteveHa
24th Sep 2021 09:40

I'd suggest tribunal if HMRC are failing to apply TMA. If enough cases get there, I'm sure that the tribunals will become impatient and HMRC will have to get their fingers out and start applying the law, rather than their own rules that have no basis in law.

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By Hugo Fair
22nd Sep 2021 13:23

Of course "they should amend the calculation that they've got wrong" - but that would consume *their* time & effort, so they'd rather you did it (at no cost to them)!

What will have happened is:
1) you submit correct figures;
2) their system processes these incorrectly and then posts results to core record at their end;
3) they discover error in their system process and (eventually) fix the software - but that still leaves incorrect core records (from those already processed);
4) they *could* trawl through their core records, identify those from the incorrectly processed and amend them - OR they could simply make it your/taxpayer's problem by not doing anything at all.

This last option is of course the selected one ... which means that *you* have to re-submit exactly the same figures as originally (not 'amended' figures), and trust that they really have now fixed their processing system - so that the figures flow through (uncorrupted) to the core record, and overwrite the rubbish previously put there by HMRC!

[Just be grateful that HMRC have learned one lesson from RTI - namely that things like EYU (which required the 'differences' to be filed rather than the actual correct figures) were a really BAD IDEA!]

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By djtax
22nd Sep 2021 14:17

Why beat about the bush - send in a formal complaint and demand compensation for the extra time incurred/wasted. All too often we accountants are too soft and let HMRC get away with their appalling level of service.

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Replying to djtax:
RLI
By lionofludesch
22nd Sep 2021 17:28

djtax wrote:

Why beat about the bush - send in a formal complaint and demand compensation for the extra time incurred/wasted. All too often we accountants are too soft and let HMRC get away with their appalling level of service.

Unfortunately, their complaints department is run by them and is totally biased.

Not to mention as inefficient as the rest of HMRC.

By the time this fella gets his amedndments through, the tax will've fallen due and the bailiffs will be knocking on the door*.

*Well, maybe not the bailiffs for £300, but he'll be getting demands and penalty notices.

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