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Tax relief on van purchase for Partnership

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I work with a company that are a registered Partnership who have just purchased a new company van which has been purchased on finance with the dealership.  Can they claim 100% tax relief on the total price of the new van off of their next income tax bill?  The company is VAT registered so we will be claiming the VAT back.

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
25th Oct 2021 14:27

That would depend what you mean by "purchased on finance". What is the nature of the finance arrangement?

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By sarasofficeservices
25th Oct 2021 15:22

They have a loan with the car dealership, rather than a lease agreement.

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By Tax Dragon
25th Oct 2021 15:29

Work with, not for?

Are you asking out of personal interest/nosiness, or are the partners actually reliant on you for their tax advice? What do you do?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By sarasofficeservices
25th Oct 2021 15:43

No I am not being nosy at all!! I am a Virtual Assistant and work with lots of different clients, this one in particular has asked me to find out the answer to this question hence my reason for asking, so not being nosy or for my own personal interest!!

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By Tax Dragon
25th Oct 2021 15:55

That sounds interesting. You probably have quite a varied day.

The partners probably wanted you to contact their accountant for them. It's one of those questions that the business's own accountant is best placed to answer. If they don't have an accountant, and you happen to have an accountant amongst your client base, would you be allowed to put them in touch with each other? That would seem quite a neat solution - or is that against the regulations/ethical guidance/insurer's rules etc? Probably is, come to think of it.

Ah well, there's always icaew.com (other websites are available).

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
25th Oct 2021 16:08

Sara, what Tax Dragon is heading towards is that you have to be registered (for money laundering purposes) these days in order to hold yourself out to the public as a bookkeeper (and, for that matter, if you also offer VAT advisory services).

If it helps, there's a list of regulated activities at: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/money-laundering-regulations-accountancy-ser...

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By sarasofficeservices
25th Oct 2021 16:33

Thank you, yes I am aware of that but I'm not a bookkeeping, I'm a Virtual Assistant who provides admin support for small businesses and I have just been asked to find out the answer to this question which is all I'm trying to do.

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By Tax Dragon
25th Oct 2021 16:41

But the question is not an admin one. The partners should not have asked you (unless as I said the request was to pass the question on to their accountant... passing a question on is admin) and, with respect, you should not have agreed to seek an answer to the question, other than that provided by their accountant.

I'm not telling you how to do your job. Well, not directly. But it is my job to answer questions of this type. So I do know it's not your job :-)

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Oct 2021 16:43

sarasofficeservices wrote:

Thank you, yes I am aware of that but I'm not a bookkeeping, I'm a Virtual Assistant who provides admin support for small businesses and I have just been asked to find out the answer to this question which is all I'm trying to do.

Sorry, Sara, I agree with the others. The minute you pass the answer to your client, you are providing regulated advice.

For your own protection, you need to register.

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By Leywood
25th Oct 2021 16:53

So your statement of services ''Bookkeeping including, invoicing, bank reconciliation, expenses, payroll, chasing late payments'' is wrong then?

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Replying to Leywood:
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By Paul Crowley
25th Oct 2021 17:15

Whoops
Op may need the work to be supervised by an AML person

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By Paul Crowley
25th Oct 2021 17:08

Virtual assistants that do not need to register
If you only provide a small amount of accountancy services as a virtual assistant you may not need to register.

You will not need to register if all the following applies:

virtual assistant is your main business
your annual business turnover is not more than £30,000
no more than 5% of your total business turnover applies to accountancy service activities
the accountancy services you provide support your main business
there is no other business activity you need to register under Money Laundering Regulations
your work is reviewed by an accountant or bookkeeper who is registered for money laundering supervision

Last item relevant

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By Leywood
25th Oct 2021 16:39

I'msorryIhaven'taclue wrote:

Sara, what Tax Dragon is heading towards is that you have to be registered (for money laundering purposes) these days in order to hold yourself out to the public as a bookkeeper (and, for that matter, if you also offer VAT advisory services).

If it helps, there's a list of regulated activities at: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/money-laundering-regulations-accountancy-ser...

Ive seen a few who describe themselves as virtual assistants who do bookkeeping and accounts on the side and do not have MLR. OP, be warned, if this is you (it might not be) that HMRC are getting on the case and seriously going after folk who dont have it.

Does your description of doing the bookkeeping cover you for giving tax advice with your insurance? As you appear to making a few basic errors in descriptions here. Nowt wrong with admitting to a client that this is beyond your knowledge/remit.

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Replying to Leywood:
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By sarasofficeservices
25th Oct 2021 16:44

No, I don't give tax advice at all. Email below is what I received from my client, therefore that is what I am asking! I shall look elsewhere as I'm clearly not getting any help on this platform, just lots of sarcastic comments from various people!

We should get 100% tax relief on the total price of the new van off of our next income tax bill (Can you look into this for me to double check)

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By Tax Dragon
25th Oct 2021 16:47

sarasofficeservices wrote:

I'm clearly not getting any help on this platform, just lots of sarcastic comments from various people!

You are so, so wrong.

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
25th Oct 2021 17:06

Oooh! It says:
"Bookkeeping including, invoicing, bank reconciliation, expenses, payroll, chasing late payments"
and, per your original post here
The company is VAT registered so we will be claiming the VAT back.

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By lionofludesch
25th Oct 2021 17:06

sarasofficeservices wrote:

No, I don't give tax advice at all.

Tax advice is not the only service covered by the Money Laundering Regs.

Up to you whether you accept that, obviously.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By lionofludesch
25th Oct 2021 17:11

I'msorryIhaven'taclue wrote:

Oooh! It says:
"Bookkeeping including, invoicing, bank reconciliation, expenses, payroll, chasing late payments"
and, per your original post here
The company is VAT registered so we will be claiming the VAT back.

Busted.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
25th Oct 2021 17:17

Not to mention "I am proficient in the Microsoft Office Suite, Sage Accounts, Sage Payroll, QuickBooks..."
and "Virtual Assistant providing admin, bookkeeping and Personal Assistant support to small businesses & consultants".

The auditor is a watchdog, not a bloodhound ;-)

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
25th Oct 2021 17:18

lionofludesch wrote:

Up to you whether you accept that, obviously.

Weellll... depending quite what you meant to say (probably not what I read, to be fair)... is it?

(But OP has long gone from this thread. Some women you just can't reach. So you get what we have here. Which is the way she wants it. And I don't like it any more than you.)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By lionofludesch
25th Oct 2021 17:35

Tax Dragon wrote:

Weellll... depending quite what you meant to say (probably not what I read, to be fair)... is it?

Sure - non-compliance with the law is a choice.

It's a choice with consequences, obviously. Jails are full of folk who choose not to comply.

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By Paul Crowley
25th Oct 2021 17:12

Next is unhelpful as next bill is for tax year ended 5 April 2021
So to get a better idea you need to know the accounting reference date and date that the item was brought into use (not the purchase date)

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Tax Dragon
25th Oct 2021 17:26

Paul Crowley wrote:

So to get a better idea you need to know the accounting reference date and date that the item was brought into use (not the purchase date)

Is that right? I thought a softwareseeker thread had challenged that conclusion somewhat? (But I'm off home. Laters.)

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By Bobbo
25th Oct 2021 16:02

a useful starting point would be to decide if you're talking about a partnership or a company.

different type of legal entity, different taxes.

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Replying to Bobbo:
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By CJS88
25th Oct 2021 16:05

"company that are a registered Partnership "

Hmm

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By lionofludesch
25th Oct 2021 16:08

Jeez - what a strange question.

On so many levels.

"A company which is a registered partnership."

The mind boggles.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By sarasofficeservices
25th Oct 2021 16:40

The business is registered as a Partnership rather than a Limited Company nothing odd about that at all.

Maybe a strange question for you but it's what I've been asked to find out and if you can't help then why comment!

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By Leywood
25th Oct 2021 16:59

You are criticising an extremely knowledgeable accountant!

You are stating you are not giving tax advice, so if you get an answer are you saying you will not pass that response on to your client? Because answering their question is (1) giving tax advice and (2) acting as a bookkeeper/accountant +/or tax advisor who needs to be regulated. The fines for non regulation are extrenely large.

You might think the answers are sarcastic, but they are actually made to protect you.

Company = Limited.
Partnership = not a company.

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By Paul Crowley
25th Oct 2021 17:22

You may have missed the points
Bookkeeping needs AML in most circumstances
Tax advice needs AML and PII in most circumstances
A partnership is taxed differently to a company

A company may need to operate a benefit in kind on a van, subject to use
It is also possible that a partnership needs to disallow some cost on a van, subject to use.
This should have been passed to the company accountants
If they do not have accountants then you have wandered into giving tax advice, but have not gathered the information from client needed to validly give a correct answer.

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Replying to sarasofficeservices:
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By lionofludesch
25th Oct 2021 17:10

sarasofficeservices wrote:

The business is registered as a Partnership rather than a Limited Company nothing odd about that at all.

Maybe a strange question for you but it's what I've been asked to find out and if you can't help then why comment!

Well, that's the point. You've now changed "company" to "business".

A company pays Corporation Tax. Partners pay Income Tax.

Different taxes, different rules. Many's the time that we've had folk on this forum come along and talk about their "company" only for us to comment and then, dozens of posts later, we find out that the "company" isn't a company at all.

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Scalloway Castle
By scalloway
25th Oct 2021 19:24

Just to be pedantic although company is nowadays taken to mean an incorporated business older readers may remember a time when many unincorporated accountantcy partnerships included in their name the phrase "& Company".

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Replying to scalloway:
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By Hugo Fair
25th Oct 2021 20:18

Happy to take up the pedantic challenge.
It's the ampersand that makes all the difference ... transforming the meaning of the subsequent word (Company) into being 'people associated with that person/people' (those that preceded the ampersand).
Like so much in the English language ... same word, different meaning - depending on context.

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Tax Dragon
25th Oct 2021 23:53

Hugo Fair wrote:

Happy to take up the pedantic challenge.

Shouldn't that be "pedantry challenge"?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Hugo Fair
26th Oct 2021 13:49

You've (correctly) got me with that one before ... I'm obviously getting too set in my ways!

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
26th Oct 2021 10:22

Hugo Fair wrote:

It's the ampersand that makes all the difference ... transforming the meaning of the subsequent word (Company) into being 'people associated with that person/people' (those that preceded the ampersand).

Like Steptoe & Son

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By Tax Dragon
26th Oct 2021 10:28

Or Accounting & Finance Professionals.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
26th Oct 2021 10:32

Like Karen & Co Bookkeeping Services?

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By Tax Dragon
26th Oct 2021 10:55

That, and I was also mulling over the differences between 'and' and '&'. 'And' (if I remember the terminology correctly) is commutative. "Finance and accounting professionals" describes the same group of people as "accounting and finance professionals". But Hugo points out that the order matters with '&': it transforms "the meaning of the subsequent word..."

Consider Co & Karen Bookkeeping Services.

This was all new to me... but forgive my using the keyboard to think out loud.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By lionofludesch
26th Oct 2021 11:11

Tax Dragon wrote:

This was all new to me... but forgive my using the keyboard to think out loud.

Yes, but I hope that Hugo won't think me unkind if I say that he was just talking blocks there.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
26th Oct 2021 11:21

I wasn't sure.

I'm glad you could cut through the murk.

More importantly, if Hugo's entry has been ruled out by Judge Lion, have I won the pedantry challenge (by default)?

Edit: this was my entry...

Tax Dragon wrote:

Hugo Fair wrote:

Happy to take up the pedantic challenge.

Shouldn't that be "pedantry challenge"?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
26th Oct 2021 11:13

Accounting & finance professionals
Finance & accounting professionals

Commutative, or not?

Virtual assistant & bookkeeper
Bookkeeper & virtual assistant

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By Tax Dragon
26th Oct 2021 11:16

Exactly.

I feel like I'm talking to myself, but someone else is responding.

It's all quite discombobulating.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
26th Oct 2021 11:28

To merge Scalloway's point with Hugo's (alleged) blocks:

Karen & company; and
Karen and company

could well have the same meaning if company meant "associates". But I'm not convinced either would work if company meant her (alleged) bookkeeping business.

I guess it all depends on the company you keep.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Tax Dragon
26th Oct 2021 12:11

Tax Dragon wrote:

I feel like I'm talking to myself, but someone else is responding.

Pleased to report that the conversation and my thought processes have since diverged.

.oO Combobulations and jubilations, I want the world to know I'm happy as can be.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
26th Oct 2021 11:28

Does the first not get the emphasis as the main activity and the second as the bit they also do sometimes?

If I wrote Solicitors and Notaries do I spend most of my time soliciting or most of my time playing with melted wax and ribbons?

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Replying to DJKL:
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By lionofludesch
26th Oct 2021 11:35

DJKL wrote:

Does the first not get the emphasis as the main activity and the second as the bit they also do sometimes?

If I wrote Solicitors and Notaries do I spend most of my time soliciting or most of my time playing with melted wax and ribbons?

So in the case of Karen and Co, Karen does more than 50% of the work ?

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Replying to DJKL:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
26th Oct 2021 11:42

DJKL wrote:

Does the first not get the emphasis as the main activity and the second as the bit they also do sometimes?

Like Wheeltappers and shunters? You reckon they spend most of their time tapping wheels and hardly ever shunt?

DJKL wrote:

..do I spend most of my time soliciting or most of my time playing with melted wax and ribbons?

Lord knows what you get up to up there, DJKL.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By lionofludesch
26th Oct 2021 11:51

I'msorryIhaven'taclue wrote:

DJKL wrote:

Does the first not get the emphasis as the main activity and the second as the bit they also do sometimes?

Like Wheeltappers and shunters? You reckon they spend most of their time tapping wheels and hardly ever shunt?

That wouldn't surprise me, actually. Wheeltapping was a vitally important and highly skilled task.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
26th Oct 2021 12:03

And shunting wasn't?

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By lionofludesch
26th Oct 2021 12:18

I'msorryIhaven'taclue wrote:

And shunting wasn't?

Safety always takes priority.

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