Temporary Workplace?

Sole company director residential work - temporary?

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Hi all

Sole limited company director (electrician) conducts residential work, spending on average a day installing and fixing boilers etc at different customers houses.  Uses his company van for the travel.

Whilst preparing the year-end accounts, it transpires he visits McDonalds/KFC most days whilst on his travels between customer locations.  No permanent office as such, does his invoicing from kitchen table at home.  

Can these costs be claimed under the temporary workplace rules?  We've reviewed EIM32075 but still not 100% sure if he'd have a case.  The geography is mostly within Merseyside.

Any opinions and thoughts be appreciated.

 

 

Replies (11)

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By David Ex
28th Nov 2022 16:36

Does the provision re “duties defined by reference to a particular area” have any application when it’s a one man band?

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim32190

PS If the client is doing gas work I hope he’s a GasSafe registered engineer as well as an electrician!

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Replying to Justin Bryant:
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By David Ex
28th Nov 2022 17:00

Justin Bryant wrote:

Unlikely. See: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim32191

I should have turned the page!

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Replying to David Ex:
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By Hugo Fair
28th Nov 2022 17:07

He won't need to be GasSafe registered if he's one of the new breed trained to install Electric Boilers.
[Coming to a street near you any day now - riding the coat-tails of installations of heat-pumps etc. Gas is so passé!]

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By Hugo Fair
28th Nov 2022 17:00

Not clear which expenses you are referring to within your question "Can these costs be claimed under the temporary workplace rules?"
Travel expenses (in which case I don't see what stopping off en route has to do with it)?
Or meal expenses (in which case I take it you're joking)?

But I'm most puzzled by "No permanent office as such."
The company must have a base address - and the "sole company director" (who is presumably an employee of the company) must be employed to work from some address (which if not defined will be the company's address and as that is the individual's home there doesn't seem room for any confusion there).
So each of the jobs that he does (irrespective of whether there are more than one on a single day or a job takes several days) constitute travel from his place of employment to a temporary workplace.

Or have I totally misunderstood the nature of the question?

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Justin Bryant
28th Nov 2022 17:15

It's also relevant re accommodation BIK and seems applicable by analogy here: https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/hmrc-say-property-developer-...

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Replying to Justin Bryant:
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By Hugo Fair
28th Nov 2022 18:34

Whilst true that that can be another relevant aspect (as per your link), it seems unlikely to me that OP's client is staying the night at his customers' premises.

Which is another reason that I asked OP to elucidate which costs he was enquiring about claiming (and preferably against which tax)!

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Justin Bryant
29th Nov 2022 09:34

I never said he was staying the night at his customers' premises. I just said it's relevant by analogy re accommodation BIK for property developers per my link.

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By bigmuggsy
28th Nov 2022 19:20

I’d love a straight answer sometimes.

1. Costs of food whilst travelling between customers houses.

2. Why would I be joking?

3. Well it’s figure of speech, he does admin work from home on his kitchen table with a bottle of lager in one hand, pen in the other while entertaining his baby son by singing to him. So it’s a base of operations ‘as such’.

So is your answer to my question yes, the food costs can be claimed per HMRC EIM31816 ?

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Replying to bigmuggsy:
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By Hugo Fair
28th Nov 2022 23:14

Not sure why you appear to feel affronted.
You can only hope to get a "straight answer" in response to a "straight question" - and your original question didn't make clear which costs you are hoping can be claimed under the temporary workplace rules (or indeed against what).

Also the EIM, as I'm sure you know, is but one of HMRC's sets of guidance for its own staff - and, like all guidance, is an excellent starting point for trying to understand their likely interpretation of the legislation. However, equally, interpretation will depend amongst other things on the details of each specific case ... so the EIMs will no more give you a definitive general answer than I can do on a public forum.

But turning to your enumerated points ...

1. Examples 2 & 3 of the EIM that you've referenced indicate that the cost of meals incurred whilst en route are allowable under section 337 IF they are incurred in the performance of the duties.
But I can see HMRC arguing that a McDonalds/KFC purchased during a lunch-break of a day-long installation job fails to meet that qualification (the idea being that it is claimable if you have no other choice whilst beetling down the motorway between multiple jobs at different locations in a day).
I doubt you will regard that as a "straight answer", but it's all I can provide.

2. Apologies for my flippant tone - but based on a lot of guesswork (aka reading between the lines of your OP) it seemed likely that your client typically has one job per day - in which, as per above, it seems clear to me that lunch is just lunch (not a cost incurred in the performance of duties).

3. You are now being as flippant as I was.
The nature of what he does or doesn't do whilst at his "base of operations ‘as such’" is irrelevant. My point was simply that if you want to consider aspects such as whether a journey is commuting or business travel, then you first need to define 'the permanent workplace' - and it looks like that is your client's home (based on info provided).

So, in short, "Can these costs be claimed under the temporary workplace rules?"
Assuming you're referring to the costs of lunch ... you could try (based on the EIM examples you've referenced), but I wouldn't personally (for the reason I gave).
However interpretation is as it were in the eye of the beholder, so you 'makes your choices and takes your chances'.

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By bigmuggsy
29th Nov 2022 07:32

Thank you for your detailed reply, it’s exactly the interpretation we required.

All the best

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