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Vat Registration - Effective Date

Effective Date of Vat registration

Hi

I have taken over a client and noticed that the turnover for the year ended 05-04-18 was 146K. I just wanted to check whether his effective date would be 06-04-18 or the day his turnover crossed the vat threshold if i registered him for Vat.

Thank you in advance

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23rd Jan 2019 11:31

Registration need to be done if, at the end of any month, total VAT taxable turnover for the last 12 months exceeded the VAT threshold.....this may have been before 5th April 2018 so you will need to check.

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23rd Jan 2019 11:34

Example
Between 10 July 2017 and 9 July 2018 your VAT taxable turnover was £100,000. That’s the first time it has gone over the VAT threshold. You must register by 30 August 2018. Your effective date of registration is 1 September 2018.

This is copied from HMRC website

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to kamran37
23rd Jan 2019 11:56

kamran37 wrote:

Example
Between 10 July 2017 and 9 July 2018 your VAT taxable turnover was £100,000. That’s the first time it has gone over the VAT threshold. You must register by 30 August 2018. Your effective date of registration is 1 September 2018.

This is copied from HMRC website

Really ?

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to kamran37
23rd Jan 2019 12:03

kamran37 wrote:

https://www.gov.uk/vat-registration/when-to-register

Jaysus - how long have we been needing to do this daily ?

I didn't notice this change in the Finance Bill.

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to lionofludesch
23rd Jan 2019 12:07

lionofludesch wrote:

kamran37 wrote:

https://www.gov.uk/vat-registration/when-to-register

Jaysus - how long have we been needing to do this daily ?

I didn't notice this change in the Finance Bill.

Nor did I!
Here's the legislation:-
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/23/schedule/1#statusWarningSub...
with the update warnings. Can't be asked to work through those as I doubt that gov.uk is correct.
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to Wanderer
23rd Jan 2019 12:26

Don't have to work through it far, the answer is in 1 (a):

at the end of any month, if the person is UK-established and the value of his taxable supplies in the period of one year then ending has exceeded £85,000

"At the end of any month" seems clear enough that the check is monthly and not done on the 9th of whenever.

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to Duggimon
23rd Jan 2019 12:33

Duggimon wrote:

Don't have to work through it far, the answer is in 1 (a):

at the end of any month, if the person is UK-established and the value of his taxable supplies in the period of one year then ending has exceeded £85,000

"At the end of any month" seems clear enough that the check is monthly and not done on the 9th of whenever.

Well, you need to check through the potential amendments on their way through Parliament.

We know what it used to say.

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to lionofludesch
23rd Jan 2019 15:08

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I checked the up to date one, it still says that.

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to Duggimon
23rd Jan 2019 15:18

Duggimon wrote:

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I checked the up to date one, it still says that.

It does.

But, as Wanderer is saying, did you check the amendments ? I couldn't be asked either, if I may use Wanderer's unusual turn of phrase, especially as I suspect that there won't be one.

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to Duggimon
23rd Jan 2019 12:39

Duggimon wrote:

Don't have to work through it far, the answer is in 1 (a):

As Lion says, it's not that but any potential amendments that I can't be asked to work through. Not that I know of any.
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By Matrix
to lionofludesch
23rd Jan 2019 12:17

Good spot. Except I just emailed a client who is up to £77k and told him to monitor monthly.

Wouldn't you get the same result though? Since you only have to register at the end of the next month does it matter which day you exceeded the limit?

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to Matrix
23rd Jan 2019 12:26

Matrix wrote:

Good spot. Except I just emailed a client who is up to £77k and told him to monitor monthly.

Wouldn't you get the same result though? Since you only have to register at the end of the next month does it matter which day you exceeded the limit?

Not necessarily. Depends how the sales fall in the month. All you need is for the trader to go on holiday at the wrong time.

Personally, I'd just rely on the legislation - which hasn't changed.

It's another "Directors-have-to-submit-SA-Returns", isn't it ?

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to lionofludesch
23rd Jan 2019 12:06

lionofludesch wrote:

Really ?

Bizarrely that is what it says. However, that doesn't seem consistent with the rest of the page that the OP is relying on.

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to Accountant A
23rd Jan 2019 12:18

Accountant A wrote:

lionofludesch wrote:

Really ?

Bizarrely that is what it says. However, that doesn't seem consistent with the rest of the page that the OP is relying on.

Who writes this carp ?

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to kamran37
23rd Jan 2019 12:06

kamran37 wrote:

Example
Between 10 July 2017 and 9 July 2018 your VAT taxable turnover was £100,000. That’s the first time it has gone over the VAT threshold. You must register by 30 August 2018. Your effective date of registration is 1 September 2018.

This is copied from HMRC website

That's a shocking example considering what they say 2 paragraphs earlier. It's worked out on a rolling year, and you assess sales for the previous 12 months at the end of each month.

Re your client Kamran, you will need to find out when he went over the threshold by working backwards. They may have gone over the threshold well before April 2018

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23rd Jan 2019 11:43

So, in your example, the threshold has been exceeded in the month ended 30th April 2018, 30 days to register takes you to 30th May, registration then from 1st June....but my point was to make sure that he hadn't exceeded the threshold before that date.

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to gainsborough
23rd Jan 2019 15:36

gainsborough wrote:
....but my point was to make sure that he hadn't exceeded the threshold before that date.

Which seems likely. Even if this was his first year of trade.

Hard to see him jogging along at less than £8000 a month for 11 months, then taking £60000+ in month 12.

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to lionofludesch
24th Jan 2019 10:08

Completely agree.

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23rd Jan 2019 16:15

@ kamran37 (OP).

In intending no offence, your question indicates to me that VAT is perhaps not your forte. Given that this is a new client, may I recommend strongly that you ascertain the taxable turnover figures for your new client for each CALENDAR MONTH from April 2016 to the present date (nearly 3 years); and report back to us accordingly.

Please also notify us of the taxable turnover per the Accounts for the year to 5 April 2017.

That information will very probably enable us to determine the correct registration date, and what action should be taken by you/your client in notifying HMRC.

Basil.

PS. The guidance from HMRC (as per the "Example" in your 11.34 post and subsequently) is simply WRONG (albeit there is a strong probability that the business would need to register, from the date stated by HMRC, on the basis of the figures supplied therein).

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23rd Jan 2019 16:35

Just checking - he's not a funeral director, is he ?

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