Share this content
26

Voluntary Class 2 NIC via tax return rejected.

HMRC revising 2015/2016 calculations

Didn't find your answer?

Two sets of 2015/2016 SA302 calculations through today. Both dated 7 February.

'We have revised some of the entries on your tax return.'

'I have corrected your Self Assessment because it is now too late to pay voluntary Class 2 National Insurance through your tax return.'

Both returns shown as filed pre 31 January. Anybody any idea what's going on?

 

 

Replies (26)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By Wanderer
15th Feb 2017 11:03

This is a different issue to the ones that were being adjusted up to now.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By mikeyban
15th Feb 2017 11:20

Had 5 this morning... phoned and they insisted it was me...
At end acknowledged it was them ... heaven help us when MTD comes in!!

Thanks (2)
avatar
By Chris Mann
15th Feb 2017 11:21

You can't hide your thoughts can you?

This transition of Class 2 NIC has been yet another HMRC success story, hasn't it?

This government department is so in need of a massive and radical overhaul.

I can only suggest that you speak to the agent dedicated line, for more information although, there's often a lack of consistency in the responses there, these days!

Thanks (2)
Replying to Chris Mann:
Tornado
By Tornado
23rd Feb 2017 14:53

"there's often a lack of consistency in the responses there, these days!"

Lack of Knowledge as well!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By bosclibby
15th Feb 2017 12:05

Yes - I've had 6 this morning, all of which the Tax Returns were filed before 31st January. What the hell is going on? Surely it's incorrect?

As other people have commented, add this nonsense to previous incorrect alterations of class 2 NIC and the lash up around transferring marriage allowance and what hope have we got when MTD hits us next year.

Thanks (2)
Replying to bosclibby:
avatar
By bosclibby
15th Feb 2017 12:09

bosclibby wrote:

Yes - I've had 6 this morning, all of which the Tax Returns were filed before 31st January. What the hell is going on? Surely it's incorrect?

As other people have commented, add this nonsense to previous incorrect alterations of class 2 NIC and the lash up around transferring marriage allowance and what hope have we got when MTD hits us next year.


And, who pays for the time it takes to sort all this rubbish out? Better stop now before I start swearing.
Thanks (2)
avatar
By SpreadsheetUser
15th Feb 2017 13:59

And what about taxpayers who WERE liable to Class 2 but paid after 31st Jan. Is the £145.60 going to be removed?!

My biggest bugbear about this is amended calculations going to clients which then makes agents look like they have made mistakes.

I've just re-read the ones I received and one says on the first page "Your Return was received after 31st January so it has not been possible to collect Class 2..." as well as the other message about being to late on page 2. This Return was submitted in September, so formal complaint going in now. They also changed the Class 2 to £44.40 which isn't even divisible by £2.80!

Thanks (2)
Replying to SpreadsheetUser:
avatar
By Southwestbeancounter
17th Feb 2017 14:45

I had one just like that the other day! It said exactly that yet they did keep hold of the £145.60 Class 2 NIC as they withheld it from the refund my client got. I rang the agent line and was told that although it said the Class 2 hadn't been collected, it had and although it said the return had gone in after 31 January, it hadn't but that it was the 'system'!!! I was not well pleased and pointed out to the operative was she aware that computers were actually capable of nothing until programmed!! She just said 'well that's just the way it is!' which believe me didn't help!! Grrrr! I've wasted hours on their inefficiency this week - I will not charge the clients as none of it has been their fault but why should I work effectively a day this week for nothing when it is not my fault either!!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By JDBENJAMIN
15th Feb 2017 14:59

I've today received one of these nonsensical 'corrections' for a return which was filed before 31 January. From what others are saying, and despite what it says on the 'correction', it is the payment date not the filing date that renders it 'too late' to pay.

Thanks (1)
Replying to JDBENJAMIN:
avatar
By sheppitsgal
15th Feb 2017 14:31

Oh, that's interesting. I was working on the assumption that they were withdrawing the Vol Class 2 if not PAID by 31.01.17, i.e. 'you wanted to pay, you should pay on time' - but your client had actually paid.

Totally confused now!

Thanks (0)
Replying to sheppitsgal:
avatar
By JDBENJAMIN
15th Feb 2017 15:03

I've edited my above post, as I subsequently found my client had not paid the Class 2 after all. Sorry to confuse things further!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By justsotax
15th Feb 2017 15:07

I had the very same issues this morning....as others have detailed the Revenue stance is that the NIC office need to be contacted where the Class 2 wasn't paid in time (by 31/1/17).

I pointed out with some irony that this was 'self' assessment, and it wasn't for the Revenue to decide whether to withdraw the voluntary amount I had included in the tax return. But they seem to be pinning their justification on the 'late' payment...I await to see the helpsheet/legislation that supports this treatment.

Thanks (1)
avatar
By gilbob
15th Feb 2017 16:15

I have been told today by someone on the NI helpline that the reason for removing it from SA is to prevent interest charges and late payment penalties arising. However the NI department is not then going to chase the taxpayer as the assumption is the taxpayer no longer wants to pay it. Consequently the great danger is that the Class 2 NI is never paid and the year no longer counts towards state pension entitlement.
To pay voluntarily requires the tax payer ringing the NI helpline and trying to negotiate the voice recognition system (good luck with that!) to get an 18 digit reference number to be able to make the necessary payment. The only other way would be to send a cheque in quoting the NI reference number.
Whichever way you cut it, it just adds up to more non chargeable time for us to have to devote to helping our clients deal with HMRC bureaucracy!!

Thanks (1)
By SteveHa
15th Feb 2017 16:30

I have a template response for HMRC Class 2 cockups which includes a request for their proposals for covering the fees incurred in fixing their errors.

Of course, no responses yet.

Thanks (1)
By cathyne
15th Feb 2017 18:26

Oh thank goodness. I'm not alone. 4 of these so far. More irrecoverable time wasted!

Thanks (1)
Replying to cathyne:
By Tim Vane
17th Feb 2017 14:49

Why irrecoverable? Just bill the client and send the bill to HMRC.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Tim Vane:
avatar
By Southwestbeancounter
17th Feb 2017 15:34

Good idea in theory - only problem is that HMRC (if they agree the claim at all) won't pay out unless they have proof the client has actually already paid the bill and I am not prepared to send clients out bills that they should not be paying in the first place. I have had years of this from HMRC and it has got so one sided now it is beyond a joke! There should be a formal route where we should be able to get reimbursed promptly for legitimate time wasted due to correcting HMRC's errors - even if it was agreed to be paid out at only £20-£30 an hour or something at least it would feel a bit better rather than all the time we are spending sorting out their errors at the moment whilst waiting on the agent dedicated line to be told how class 2 NIC works!

Thanks (0)
Replying to Southwestbeancounter:
avatar
By SimonLever
20th Feb 2017 11:50

If client sends you a cheque for your bill there is no need for you to bank it immeadiately!

I would hold onto the cheque, tell HMRC that it has been paid and once client receives refund from HMRC the cheque can then be banked. Client therefore does not lose out on cashlflow.

In my experience clients are very willing to follow this route as they feel they are getting one over on HMRC.

Yes it is a pain from an administrative point of view but your admin time can be built into the original bill.

If HMRC dispute or do not pay the bill for whatever reason client has not lost out and you can issue credit note. All you will then be doing is providing your service for free, which is what you were going to do in the first place anyway!

Thanks (1)
avatar
By AllisonRamus
20th Feb 2017 10:11

When I spoke to HMRC, I was told it was the NIC Office that had made the adjustment. They did a "sweep" on 31st January and if the return and monies paid were not on the system - because it takes HMRC several days to update their systems, then you cannot pay the voluntary Class 2 through self assessment. You will then need to call NIC office to make the payment that way, or still pay through self assessment and then get payment moved across......

Thanks (1)
avatar
By paulbrent
20th Feb 2017 11:30

Had the same problem. This only applies where voluntary payments are being made. According to HMRC these must be paid by 31 January, so if the client is late making the payment it will be rejected and they will have to telephone HMRC to state that they wish to pay. HMRC will then give them a reference which has to be input when paying online.
No-I don't understand the logic behind this either!
Problem won't exist with the abolition of Class2

Thanks (1)
joe
By Smokoe Joe
20th Feb 2017 13:15

I had one, Class 2 covered by CIS, so they refunded it! FFS

Thanks (1)
avatar
By lh3f9764bg1g
20th Feb 2017 14:22

In so, so many cases they have actually returned monies that have been paid to them or over-repaid money that they should have held on to (as they were told by means of the self-assessment). This is one of the stupidest ****-ups I have ever seen and I've seen a few!

Thanks (2)
avatar
By Paul.Chillman
20th Feb 2017 15:47

A cynic might think that it is a secret plan to reduce future pension costs as so many people will have gaps in their contribution histories :-). Alternatively, it might be a fund raiser - Class 3 @ £14.10 per week seems to trump Class 2 @ £2.80.

I don't think it will get any better for those with low profits after Class 2 has been abolished.

Thanks (1)
avatar
By WinterbourneAssociates
21st Feb 2017 16:10

I have just discovered this stupidity today. My queries to the Agent Line included my observation that I had not read anything about there being a cut off date for payment. The official said that he had not known anything about it either until the 3rd February 2017.
He thought that the reason behind it was to do with interest and penalties. He felt that interest and penalties were not chargeable on Class II and therefore needed to be excluded from the system.
I guess I'll go eat worms.

Thanks (0)
Morph
By kevinringer
23rd Feb 2017 14:40

I've had one of these: the voluntary C2NICs were unpaid at 31/01/17 and reduced to the credit on the SA record which was 54p! I was told by HMRC ADL that voluntary C2NICs can't be paid through SA after 31/01/17 and the taxpayer must make payment to NICO. But the same officer then said there was a bug in HMRC software that will be corrected and the C2NICs reinstated! And I thought the transfer of C2NICs from NICO to SA was supposed to make collection and administration easier.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By lh3f9764bg1g
24th Feb 2017 16:07

Why oh why could they not just leave well alone?!?! Daft meddlers!

Thanks (0)
Share this content

Related posts