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VT or Sage

VT or Sage

A client needs to update his bookkeeping and monthly reporting package. He is currently on sage and finds it ok to use. Does he stick with it or move to VT? I use sage for book keeping, VT for accounts and a very recent VT user for bookkeeping. Any advice, your preferences or your pitfalls much appreciated. Thank you!

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28th Jan 2014 14:18

vt

I've asked the same question myself and still haven't make a decision but I am heading 75% towards sage at the moment because I have use Sage and I see most company use Sage so it must be a good option.

Why are you using VT for accounts just curious doesn't Sage cater for accounts?

 

 

 

Thanks (1)
By mailkw
to Azhar
29th Jan 2014 15:03

I did start out with sage accounts. When I needed to renew I looked at VT and tried it. I would never go back to sage for accounts now!

Thanks (2)
By mrme89
28th Jan 2014 14:25

Sage would probably struggle to make it into the top 20 for most members on this forum.  

Thanks (6)
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to lionofludesch
28th Jan 2014 14:33

Sage

mrme89 wrote:

Sage would probably struggle to make it into the top 20 for most members on this forum.  

 

The members on this forum don't like sage but every job vacancy you see they ask for Sage or Quickbooks which I start seeing. Sage you don't pay a yearly licence fee which can go up each year so how can sage be expensive that's what I would like to know just curious why.

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By zebaa
28th Jan 2014 14:31

As a Sage hater...

...I have to ask - how is the client doing with it? If all looks okay, why change? While Sage will cost more, the cost of learning a new package, even one as simple & good as VT, may well be higher.

Thanks (2)
By mailkw
to lionofludesch
29th Jan 2014 15:02

Learning costs for both
The client also has a new book keeper, sorry missed that information out! So they will need to learn whichever package is chosen. Both are unknown to them!

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to Martin Dore1
29th Jan 2014 15:43

Intuition

Modern bookkeeping platforms should be highly intuitive (unlike Sage of old!)

Thanks (1)
28th Jan 2014 14:43

VT

Sage are avaricious.  They don't make my preferred supplier list except for contempt.

I had been a Sage user for 10+ years before I discovered VT.

Imagine being able to edit journals without having to reverse and repost. Imagine doing journals directly into customer and supplier accounts without having to do that suspense and dummy invoice nonsense. That's VT, that is.

Thanks (8)
By AS
28th Jan 2014 14:34

VT

I have been a Sage user for 20+ years and started using VTT+ recently. It is a no brainer - VT is much better than Sage.

Thanks (4)
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28th Jan 2014 14:38

Sage and Onion

Or chalk and cheese if you prefer. Sage is a tamper proof bookkeeping system that needs to be used properly, VT is a no/low cost Excel based system that can easily be broken (and you need to have bought Excel in the first place). Neither are good at providing what I'd call management information. If I were a bookkeeper I'd try and get my clients off Sage and onto the cloud, means you can work flexibly with them and also the accountant. Every client bar two I had with Sage I've got them off it, and the two left do their own bookkeeping and VAT so I only need the TB at year end to prepare the final accounts.

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By mrme89
to lionofludesch
28th Jan 2014 15:09

Management Information

PracticePartner wrote:

 Neither are good at providing what I'd call management information.

 

I would disagree. As VT is excel based it's quite easy to copy and paste P&L and balance sheet information into another spreadsheet which makes producing management information a doddle (providing you are excel competent).

Thanks (2)
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to lionofludesch
28th Jan 2014 19:25

Not Excel based

PracticePartner wrote:

VT is a no/low cost Excel based system that can easily be broken (and you need to have bought Excel in the first place).

VT Transaction+ is not Excel based and does not require Excel (but VT Final Accounts does). A password can be set in VT Transaction+ for all the editing features.

Philip Hodgson
VT Software

Thanks (3)
By mailkw
to Cardigan
29th Jan 2014 14:59

Password option
That's a useful option for my situation thanks Phlip!

Thanks (0)
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to Cardigan
29th Jan 2014 15:42

Mixing up my VTs?

vtsoftware wrote:

PracticePartner wrote:

VT is a no/low cost Excel based system that can easily be broken (and you need to have bought Excel in the first place).

VT Transaction+ is not Excel based and does not require Excel (but VT Final Accounts does). A password can be set in VT Transaction+ for all the editing features.

Philip Hodgson
VT Software

Philip, apologies if I have mixed up 2 different products, I installed VT Final Accounts first and so far have only used this, and because it includes VT Transaction+ I assumed you still needed Excel (and also for VT Cashbook). Would you mind clarifying the differences between the products, as I'd find the distinction important, because although I'd be wary of steering a client towards something that can easily be broken in Excel, a self-contained package is a different matter.

 

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to leshoward
31st Jan 2014 11:38

VT Transaction+ is a stand alone bookeeping package

VT Transaction+ is a stand alone bookkeeping package as is VT Cashbook which is a simplified version of VT Transaction+. VT Final Accounts runs in Excel and starts from Trial Balance stage which can be entered manually, by linking to a VT Transaction+ file or imported from a CSV file.

If you have VT Final Accounts installed you will also have VT Transaction+ so should be able to create a dummy file to see how it works.

Victoria Frazer

VT Software

Thanks (2)
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28th Jan 2014 14:52

VT every time - love it to bits and clients to whom we have recommended it without exception wished they had used it years ago (and that includes previous Sage users)

Thanks (3)
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By Monsoon
28th Jan 2014 14:56

VTT+ is great

If you use VT Accounts, why on earth wouldn't you use T+ for the books? It links straight in, no keying in or otherwise importing a TB from other software (and we all know how bloated Sage TBs are).

Sage is fine for bookkeeping, but VT is far superior. And cheaper. And easier. And quicker. Etc.

Thanks (4)
By Luke
28th Jan 2014 14:57

VT

Having used both lots over the years but very little recent Sage experience, I had to use sage again a few weeks ago.  I found it very painful compared to VT. 

For me the main downside of Sage was that you cannot just double click on a number and see what it is made up of.  Also I found that Sage is inflexible when it comes to reporting.

I have moved clients from Sage Instant to VT cashbook and they tend to like it.  VT also helpfully autocompletes common entries, which is nice.

Thanks (3)
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28th Jan 2014 15:20

I would never use Sage, it's a total nightmare.  I have used VT for 15 years and been very happy with it.  Sage is an ancient product, cumbersome, impossible to edit, has no reporting facilities to speak of, has not been properly updated since MS-DOS days (remember those).  All the money is spent on marketing and nothing at all on product development.  If you're thinking of buying Sage go and lie down in a darkened room until the feeling goes away.

Thanks (5)
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By cbp99
28th Jan 2014 17:41

VT every time

Imagine bringing up a TB, P&L or BS with a single keystroke. Or switching between years with two mouse clicks.

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28th Jan 2014 18:33

VT VT VT

No contest.

Thanks (2)
28th Jan 2014 18:58

VT for me

... the drill down is brilliant, too, and the ability to change the view to months, quarters, etc., all at the click of a button. Also, the ease with which you can create new nominal accounts. I get my clients to use this feature if they are not sure which expense analysis to use. When you feed it into VT accounts it is so simple to tell the software where to put the new accounts. I love it!

The last time I used my VERY expensive Sage, it  didn't have any drill down at all, nor the ability to look at a different year.

VTT+ comes free with VT Accounts I'm a very happy bunny with VT. :)

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By Oki1970
28th Jan 2014 20:07

Definitely VT for me

I am not an accountant or a bookkeeper. I have just started to use computerised bookkeeping for my business. It is all new to me. I have both Sage and VT. There is no comparison. VT Transaction+ is much simpler to learn and use and extemely flexible. For example, I did not manage to get the opening balances for the previous year form my accountant, but I have been using it happily for more than a month. I will be able to enter the opening balances afterwards.

When I make mistakes, which I make a lot, I can easily rectify them by editing transactions or deleting them. As others menitoned it is so easy to look at the details for pervious transactions.

It is absolutely brilliant!!

Thanks (2)
By mailkw
29th Jan 2014 14:58

Vt it seems
Thanks to all for posting very useful comments. VT does seem to be a more popular choice. The client only does very basic stuff each month. I do most of it. I think the ease of corrections makes me a bit unsure. Who knows what the client would get up to?! At least on sage you have a full trail. I think I'll look further in to the reports you can get from VT. Such a shame they don't give you demo data to play with.

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29th Jan 2014 16:01

Sage For Me

Hi 

As a practice we provide detailed management accounts and project costing for all our clients.    Sage can have as many chart of accounts as you like to suit different managers and different needs.

 If Sage is set up correctly to suit  the clients needs it is a  fantastic tool for management if not like any other software is not set up to suit that clients needs it is a disaster for management information.   

All the cloud packages in my mind struggle when you talking volumes of paperwork.  The cloud is excellent when there is not volumes of paperwork it depends on the client.   We are about half and half at the minute.   I like VT for accounts production but not for bookkeeping .

Sarah. 

 

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to Justin Bryant
29th Jan 2014 17:04

Sage is a bit old hat now but it provides plenty of work

sarah douglas wrote:

Hi 

As a practice we provide detailed management accounts and project costing for all our clients.    Sage can have as many chart of accounts as you like to suit different managers and different needs.

 If Sage is set up correctly to suit  the clients needs it is a  fantastic tool for management if not like any other software is not set up to suit that clients needs it is a disaster for management information.   

Sarah. 

My experience with Sage is that it is bought by business and left in the corner for the bookkeeper to use. I've never seen it properly used by small businesses to provide management information out of the box, and nobody seems to like it much. So Excel gets used to provide management accounts, after much data manipulation, which has become a cottage industry for traditional accountants. The whole ethos of cloud platforms is collaboration, to get business roles using the software and making accounts less of a black box. Taking Xero as an example we can upload the client's budget, quickly set up customised management report formats and the client can self-serve. Try doing that with a single user installation of Sage.

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29th Jan 2014 21:49

We can do that on Sage in one install

Hi 

That is exactly what we do in one install budgets and everything in one go.  Pesonally I do not find it difficult.  I have plenty of clients who use it for management basis weekly , monthly .  

So it is not a package in the corner as it is also a great Data base and has lots of other uses which most of our clients use.   

I do agree though there  are many that do not like it .  So if someone does not like it then there is loads of software on the market to find something they like.   It always reminds me of the Apple V Microsoft argument.  All software have their good points and we judge client needs and likes.  Our experience is if the client does not like their package what ever is it is.  Every thing becomes more difficult. 

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By zebaa
04th Feb 2014 14:18

Yup.

It's the way to go.

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27th Oct 2016 09:46

OK its an old thread but worth an addition. My wife did our (quite complex >500k) accounts and payroll manually despite the first of many computers (a Commodore PET) being used here in 1979. Periodically she looked at accounting packages and considered they were too rigid and difficult to use every time (actually she was pretty rude about them). She died recently so I searched for a package as I would not be able to replicate her immaculate hand-written accounts. We had downsized a bit so I first looked here:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/best-free-accounting...

I spent over a month going through them all, and a few others like Xeno, trying to bang in two months of pay/invoices that had a few contras. Frankly it was horrendous, they were all awkward, difficult, needlessly over-rigid and unintuitive. As a one-time commercial software writer it was like going back into the worst of the 1980's. Appalling.

As techradar had said VT was excel based (it isn't) I didn't try it but in desperation I later forgot this and had a go. I had the first two months in within hours, easily a first in itself. Obviously I made lots of mistakes, quite normal with new software. Fixing mistakes and moving to better ways to do things that you find once you start using software was a complete doddle. Bank reconciliation was easy and then when I came to do the VAT I realised I had some zero vat payments as inside the scope when they should be outside. OMG do I start again? NO, quite sensibly although I could not alter the bank reconciled figures I COULD reassign them (which is fine when you think about it) and all the VAT could be neatly tidied up.

I doubt I could have done this at all using other programs and I'm sure it would not be simple but its just the sort of errors you WILL make on startup. If doing it for a client, there will be a host more reassignments until you become familiar with his business.

It gets better....
Of course the ledgers I started with were the default for 'my type of business'. When I got more comfortable and familiar (and only with the first quarter in) I realised I could rename and reassign the ledgers to match the ones used by my accountant (who just does year-end and tax) without having to start again. Its even easy to reassign at this stage.

Yes, the program does allow you to lock entries, which I will do in due course as well as VAT claim & etc.

OK, its probably not ideal if you have a dumbo without a brain cell entering simple figures mindlessly where extreme restrictions are needed, nor if you have crooks doing your accounts who might spirit cash off (but I guess there are holes in any accounts package). But if you have a vague idea what you are doing (and that includes the client) and value speed and flexibility then this program is for you. Neat, quick, flexible, easy to use and intuitive. As it happens I issue few invoices so the £150 for the pro version probably isn't worth it so I am using the free one. I would like to send the manufacturer’s £30, but they never reply... Ah Well.

So do I recommend this software over all the others I spend days (and much more)_wrestling fruitlessly with? I certainly do. Its a no-brainer.

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