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VT Transaction +

No longer................!

So, after getting over the initial shock after hearing on AW that VT are no longer going to continue the development of Transaction + what are other VT users going to use instead??

We use VT for all our bookkeeping clients and assuming they would be suitable for MTD, what with them having a Tax Data/MTD tab and all, it now transpires this will not be the case........  Haven't heard anything from VT directly though!!??  Hello VT - are you there??

Are any existing VT Transaction + users looking for an alternative yet?  What software out there will be a good replacement?

 

 

 

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05th Oct 2017 11:26

I intend to keep using it for those clients that have it. After all, it does the job. I am sure there will be a way to get the figures into my tax package, probably using the copy to clipboard option.

I do not believe the hype from the software vendors that suggest the entire process will have to be automated using a magic button, and it certainly does not dictate that in the legislation. HMRC will get their figures, my clients will have their transactions stored digitally, and I will smile and wave.

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05th Oct 2017 11:35

Having got over the surprise myself I am going to sit and wait. Firstly, there is ample time to 'do nothing' until we get a lot more clarity. Secondly, I am expecting that there will, eventually, be some sort of workaround that doesn't make VTT+ redundant.

Fingers crossed. Exciting, though, isn't it?

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By Doris
to andy.partridge
05th Oct 2017 11:42

Haha, yes very exciting!!
Just initial shock and panic, shot of brandy now taking effect so have calmed down somewhat!
Keep calm and carry on, thanks Mr Partrige/ Mr Vane :)

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05th Oct 2017 11:40

No real point in jumping ship yet. Propose to wait to see if MTD comes in & in what form exactly.

Maybe someone will come up with an interface?

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05th Oct 2017 12:29

I would imagine all will be fine - HMRC confirmed that spreadsheets can be used for 'digital' records and so it follows that there will be a way to get the information from a spreadsheet to HMRC....

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to Ellabobbin
05th Oct 2017 13:15

An excellent response to an entirely different question.

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to Tim Vane
05th Oct 2017 17:14

Sorry I answered in a hurry!

My meaning was, if a spreadsheet is considered 'digital' then there will surely be a way to get from VT to HMRC albeit not by pushing a button within VT itself.

I'm not rushing to make any changes - MTD has been a shambles do far!

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By cbp99
05th Oct 2017 13:24

Will continue to await certainty on MTD, and use VT in the meantime.
One of the curiosities of VT's somewhat cryptic announcement is that they have not said that it will not be suitable for tax filing, as opposed to Vat filing.

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to cbp99
06th Oct 2017 09:25

I didn't interpret it that way.

It just says it's not suitable for VAT registered clients above the VAT threshold. Which implies it's the VAT return that is the problem. Presumably VAT exempt businesses will be grand.

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By cbp99
to lionofludesch
06th Oct 2017 15:04

That's what I meant, albeit somewhat clumsily expressed with the double negative!

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05th Oct 2017 14:17

The HMRC guidance published on 19 July 2017 "Terms of Collaboration between HM Revenue and Customs and software developers" https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-tax-digital-software-s... includes:

1 To connect to, and use the APIs, you must protect your security assets, cloud security and internet security in line with industry standards and best practice.

2 provide access to your customers’ data both to the customer and to HMRC

Seems to me that the above can only be done by cloud based software. Clearly, at some point spreadsheet solutions are going to be deemed unacceptable. Does desktop software comply with the requirements?

HMRC Consultation 13 Sep 2017 https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/making-tax-digital-reforms-a...

Third-party software
The regulations will provide that a business is in scope for MTD must use functional compatible software to meet the new requirements.

Functional compatible software means a software program or set of compatible software programs which can connect to HMRC systems via an Application Programming Interface (API). The functions of the compatible software must include:

- keeping records in a digital form as required by the regulations
- preserving digital records in a digital form as required by the regulations
- creating a VAT return from the digital records held in functional compatible software and providing HMRC with this information digitally
- providing HMRC with VAT data on a voluntary basis
receiving information from HMRC via the API platform in relation to a relevant entity’s compliance with obligations under the regulations

Does Digital in MTD actually mean Cloud, or Digital?

I suspect VT feel very much like me, we are being sucked into being unpaid agents for HMRC.

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to Brads.Kings
05th Oct 2017 15:04

MTD just means "digital".

They would *like* it to mean cloud as that's more cash for their software buddies who just so happen to advise on government policy, but its really hard to make that stick legislatively.

The bare minimum constraints of VAT are just totals for the quarter. That's a "quarter book"

I am certainly not jumping to do anything yet, not least as there is simple nothing close to any software which computes VAT properly, there are always exceptions and adjustments.

Given developers have just had their fingers burned very badly on the abandoning on full MTD (its only VAT numbers now) I doubt many will be leaping to spend a lot of money on it.

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to ireallyshouldknowthisbut
08th Oct 2017 10:57

"provide access to your customers’ data both to the customer and to HMRC"

Give HMRC access to the data!? That is worrying.

Are we going the North Korea route?

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to richardterhorst
08th Oct 2017 14:57

What did you think MTD was about ?

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to lionofludesch
09th Oct 2017 09:21

I thought it was about submitting lots of data to HMRC not giving HMRC carte blanche access to your accounting records which I think is the point richardterhorst is making.

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to paulwakefield1
09th Oct 2017 09:36

Take your point - but MTD seems to be about submitting all your records to HMRC, which amounts to much the same thing.

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05th Oct 2017 17:28

If the API required is similar to say Moneysoft, then it can't be that hard to develop (ignorance is bliss), or the VT business has value that someone could buy and 'plug' in the API.

Or it is just the final straw for the directors of VT as software development and our profession is becoming a constant treadmill.

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05th Oct 2017 19:37

VAT is the killer for virtually all software, both desktop and cloud. Fine if you have very simple affairs, but it's a hell of a big ask to develop some software that can cope with the flat rate scheme, imports/exports (of course different rules for goods & services), zero rate, exempt and out of scope, MOSS, and partial exemption. I suspect VT were happy enough to develop MTD for non VAT registered businesses (or very simple VAT registered ones) such as very small businesses, landlords, etc, but once it has become apparent that MTD is starting with VAT registered businesses, then that's end game for VT transaction, especially seeing as it never provided for flat rate scheme nor had any provision for different "none" vat items, i.e. it couldn't differentiate between zero, exempt and out of scope. Quite simply, it was never that much good for VAT registered businesses with anything other than a very simple VAT account, and to try to make it compliant for MTD would have meant a lot of development to improve it's vat handling capabilities.

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to Ken Howard
06th Oct 2017 09:21

I agree. There are only four numbers to extract from software on most VAT returns (boxes 1, 4, 6 and 7) but there are a lot of options to cover on how those numbers are calculated.

It's actually the most complex tax to deal with.

As far as I know, MTD kicks in for returns from April 2019 - which begs the question, if I do decide to change software packages, do I need to do it from the start of the accounting period or do I bu99er about with two different accounting packages in the transitional year ?

I'm not sure whether April 2019 means VAT returns ending after 31 March 2019 or starting after 31 March 2019 .....

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By cbp99
to Ken Howard
06th Oct 2017 12:21

Interesting points about the complexity of Vat and the ability of software to cope. I don't know of any of the mainstream bookkeeping softwares that can cope with all these aspects, and I don't imagine that this will change when MTD for Vat arrives. That is, i expect most software will still require adjustments for things like margin schemes, so in itself that does not strike me as the complete reason for VT's decision.
As Vat data is easily exported from VT to spreadsheets for analysis and adjustment, it is suitable at present for dealing with most aspects of Vat.
I disagree that VT cannot distinguish out of scope transactions, and it will not include these on a Vat return. It deals well with cash accounting and with EU services and goods, including EC sales lists.

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to cbp99
06th Oct 2017 12:41

I suspect that HMRC require a lot of "behind the scenes" stuff in the software, which users may not notice. I'm thinking audit trails so that HMRC can ask "Why did you reclassify this payment from this NL account to this one?" and we can answer "Because the client thought HP payments for his van went to motor expenses and we disagreed".

Not sure how this helps anyone but HMRC seem to like this sort of thing.

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By birdie
06th Oct 2017 10:54

As a very satisfied VT user for many years yesterdays news was a shock to me. However, I have been considering "joining the clouds" and now may be a good time - any recommendations? Again, as a 60+ accountant, do I want to learn another piece of software? AE was bad enough!!!

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By Matrix
06th Oct 2017 13:51

I just opened my VT renewal letter and it did not say anything about this. I spoke to them earlier in the year and they were going to charge about £120 a year for the MTD button but this was before the July changes.

VT seem to be pretty silent on here.

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By stig247
to Matrix
06th Oct 2017 18:21

I checked their website earlier and it does mention it unfortunetly

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By stig247
06th Oct 2017 18:24

I would wait yet and can probably see it just be a case of extracting figures from vt for a quater and entering it to hmrc. I doubt they will be able to handle audit trails for every single business the amount of transactions will send hmrcs connect computer crazy

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09th Oct 2017 14:20

I'm going to wait for now, but will have a good look around in a years time. It's surprising how quick those last 6 months will go.

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