Wales Firebreak Furlough Claim

Can client forced to close on October 23rd claim full furlough for last part of October?

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New furlough, new problem. My client is based in Wales and is currently trading. His trade is a micro brewery with a small workforce. The brewery will now have to close on October 23rd for the "firebreak" lockdown announced today. The trade cannot be carried on from home. The staff need to be furloughed from October 23rd to November 9th. 

Presumably the client can claim the new Job Support Scheme from November 1st but (presumably) will not be able to claim for the period October 23rd to October 31st as they won't meet the 3 week minimum furlough restriction. 

What are everyone else's thoughts on this? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Replies (15)

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RLI
By lionofludesch
19th Oct 2020 17:21

What three week minimum ?

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By johnny fartpants
19th Oct 2020 17:49

In the early days of the Job Retention Scheme (for claims between March 1st and June 30th) there was a minimum furlough of 3 weeks.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus...

"From 1 July 2020, you will:

only be able to claim for employees who have previously been furloughed for at least 3 consecutive weeks taking place any time between 1 March 2020 and 30 June 2020"

All staff were furloughed in April for more than 3 weeks. I thought each furlough period (for full rather than part time furlough) had to be for at least 3 weeks. Is this not the case?

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By Wanderer
19th Oct 2020 17:57

johnny fartpants wrote:

All staff were furloughed in April for more than 3 weeks. I thought each furlough period (for full rather than part time furlough) had to be for at least 3 weeks. Is this not the case?

Probably best that you get a good understanding of the way the rules developed & changed:-
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/treasury-direction-made-under...
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By johnny fartpants
19th Oct 2020 18:07

Thanks Wanderer. That's a really helpful link.

As a sole practitioner with a working wife and school children I feel like I'm simply not able to keep on top of all the additional workload. Tricky times.

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Replying to johnny fartpants:
RLI
By lionofludesch
19th Oct 2020 18:01

johnny fartpants wrote:
I thought each furlough period (for full rather than part time furlough) had to be for at least 3 weeks. Is this not the case?

No.

You're grand if they've done their three week stint in April.

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By johnny fartpants
19th Oct 2020 18:08

Great. Thanks lionofludesch

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By Wanderer
19th Oct 2020 17:33

Are breweries actually being forced to close? Thought it was only pubs, restaurants, hotels and non-essential shops?

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By johnny fartpants
19th Oct 2020 18:01

I'm not sure to be honest. Hospitality is mentioned in the speech but my client will need to seek guidance on whether they are required to close. I've been asked to advise before the detailed guidance (again).

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Replying to johnny fartpants:
RLI
By lionofludesch
19th Oct 2020 18:09

As I read it, the brewery isn't required to close as it's not retail. On the other hand, there may not be a lot of opportunity for sales, so the distinction might be academic.

But the advice is very vague and is open to further clarification or - indeed - outright changes if the past eight months is anything to go by.

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Replying to johnny fartpants:
RLI
By lionofludesch
19th Oct 2020 18:17

johnny fartpants wrote:

I'm not sure to be honest. Hospitality is mentioned in the speech .....

To whom is your brewery offering hospitality ? Whether or not paid for ?

I would suggest "nobody".

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By legerman
20th Oct 2020 09:48

My understanding is that they'll be able to claim from 23rd - 31st October under the present scheme (60% of wages based on 19/20) but not from 1st November.

This is because the new 67% add on scheme only covers those businesses that have been told they have to close, not those who close "voluntarily" (in your case because all their clients have had to close.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/job-support-scheme-expanded-to-firms-...

Has your client considered a home delivery service? Could be a nice little earner if drinkers can't get to the pubs

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By johnny fartpants
20th Oct 2020 11:20

They have a shop within the brewery that sells their own beer but only deliver to the local pubs currently. I thought that (shop) element of the business fell under "non essential shops". Another grey area in my opinion if they sold food (crisps), presumably this would put them back into the essential list of businesses??

This really illustrates the difficulties we (accountants) have currently. The measures being announce by Government raise client's expectations. We are expected to (a) be experts in all local restrictions and (b) then have to break the devastating news to the clients that, although the new measures will effectively wipe out their businesses, they will be left high and dry.

Frustrated and exhausted.

Rant over.

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Replying to johnny fartpants:
RLI
By lionofludesch
20th Oct 2020 11:41

Yeah - I think you're going to need more than a box of Piper's Ready Salted to qualify as an essential food shop.

Totally agree with you. As I've said on another thread, JSS isn't fitting the bill now that things have changed.

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Replying to johnny fartpants:
By SteveHa
20th Oct 2020 13:09

Are they anywhere near Newport. I wouldn't say "no" to a delivery service for the next couple of weeks.

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By legerman
20th Oct 2020 13:50

johnny fartpants wrote:

They have a shop within the brewery that sells their own beer but only deliver to the local pubs currently. I thought that (shop) element of the business fell under "non essential shops". Another grey area in my opinion if they sold food (crisps), presumably this would put them back into the essential list of businesses??

.....

Frustrated and exhausted.

Rant over.

Your rant is understandable. At my old office there was a specialist off licence underneath and, in the previous UK lockdown they were allowed to remain open, even though pubs and other shops had to close.

That may be the case with the lockdown in Wales possibly?

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