What can't I do as CTA/ACCA?

Could someone give me a rough idea what I'm not allowed to do before I message the CIOT please?

Didn't find your answer?

Hi all

Short version as being bumped around in a car (passenger don' worry!)

I am CTA and employed. I am inundated with friends/family/men down pubs to do everything from just answer a quick question to do their returns for them.

I believe I am not allowed to do anything at all. Obviously I therefore never give any advice nor do my dear old mums tax return <_<   >_>   <_<

Am I being too strict? Is there something I can do to say 'I help out friends and family, they don't pay but I might get an extra present at Christmas but I'm not practising, I'm just using my specialist knowledge to help?

Accounts are easier, as I'm a reformed accountant (still in the ACCA but my last formal accounts were loooong ago, so I always decline) so I never do accounts. Presumably I can bookkeep if I felt the urge?

This has come to focus as a small charity just gushed when they foubd out I was in tax. I want to help them, but not if it gets me thrown out of the ACCA/CTA! Similarly, a lot of my family will be asking me to help them do their returns in the next 2 months...

All advice welcomed :) I want to help, but not end up on the disciplinary pages...

 

Replies (17)

Comments for this post are now closed.

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By tom123
18th Nov 2017 18:08

To be honest, I would decline everything! (citing rules etc) - with poss. exception of mum.

In addition to paying CIOT subs, you would need to pay the money laundering addition (that I guess you don't do now), together with getting the practicing cert.

I may be a bit off beam, as only managed ATT to go with my CIMA (and employment), but I find the few SA returns I have ended up doing for 'friends' a real drag, and not really worth it for the few hundred pounds I earn (in total).

The only exception is one I do for a 'best' friend for free - where I am happy to do so as a genuine favour.

I am a charity trustee - but we always appoint an external accountant.

Not much wrong (I suppose) with standing over family whilst they key their own figures into HMRC, and you suggest which boxes they need.

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By Accountant A
19th Nov 2017 11:46

Either do it right or don't do it. Apart from the issues tom123 refers to, I'd very much doubt your employment contract allows moonlighting.

To be honest you sound cocky and overconfident and that sort of attitude tends to end up with people dropping themselves in the sh:t.

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By garforth
18th Nov 2017 20:31

Apart from all other points raised you would need Pi to get involved with charity accounts.
Don't forget quickest way to get rid of friends is to do their tax returns.

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By Matrix
19th Nov 2017 08:02

I wouldn't bother since all the costs referred to above would be approx £1,000 a year. Also, unless you advise on personal tax every day, I am not sure you would be doing them a favour.

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By ms998
20th Nov 2017 10:01

Don't do it.

If it goes wrong who they going to blame? You don't have PI insurance.

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Quack
By Constantly Confused
20th Nov 2017 10:10

Gosh where to start on this! :)

Tom: I think the 'standing over them' bit is what I will go with, in case it wasn't clear from my original post I do not charge anything to anyone (though I accept I may receive a perk or two in the way of good natured gratitude at holidays and birthdays). My main concern is that this would somehow be seen by the CIOT as me breaching their guidelines or some such.

AccountantA: I have read my post again and can't see the cocky/overconfident part, could you point it out? As far as I am aware I said I was being asked by all and sundry to do their tax returns for free as a family favor, something I am clearly capable of (unless you think the CTA doesn't give you enough tax knowledge to stick a few figures on a tax return?!?)

Garforth: I said I never do accounts, nor do I intend to! Unless you are suggesting maintaining a spreadsheet for their accountant to use is accounting for this purpose?

Matrix: I have no idea what to say, other than why is the £1,000 relevant and I do advise on personal tax for 40 hours a week...

For the benefit of future posters (if any), I am asking if me helping out friends and family and giving pointers to strangers is allowed by my Institute, I am going to ask them directly but wanted to sound it out first so I could phrase it all correctly.

#Edit#
Ms998: Well the friend I helped out was told quite categorically that if she got investigated she couldn't try and bring me into it, as all I was doing was suggesting and thinking out loud based on what she told me, so anything wrong is her end (though I would, truth be told, cover any interest and penalties if she got them due to my pointers, provided it wasn't because she told me the wrong thing). Any family member who tried to take me with them would find themselves suffering a fate worse than death - familial shunning by all and sundry!

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Replying to Constantly Confused:
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By Matrix
20th Nov 2017 10:39

£1,000 is my estimate of all the costs if you had to get the practicing cert, PI, software etc but if you are not charging then it makes no sense.

You didn't say that you worked in personal tax - I was CTA qualified 20 years before I set up my own practice and had only ever completed my own tax return since I worked in international tax. I think with all the complicated tax bands etc it would be hard to help others if you did not do it every day, since you do you will be fine. I don't see how over the shoulder tax returns would be a problem but keep away from the charity.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By Constantly Confused
20th Nov 2017 11:14

Matrix wrote:

£1,000 is my estimate of all the costs if you had to get the practicing cert, PI, software etc but if you are not charging then it makes no sense.

You didn't say that you worked in personal tax - I was CTA qualified 20 years before I set up my own practice and had only ever completed my own tax return since I worked in international tax. I think with all the complicated tax bands etc it would be hard to help others if you did not do it every day, since you do you will be fine. I don't see how over the shoulder tax returns would be a problem but keep away from the charity.

I don't believe I would need a practising certificate, as I wouldn't be doing any accounts. I wouldn't need software as Excel would be more than adequate for the type of 'client'. PII is £60/annum :)

AML is the only sticking point for me... could be £100 to register, then £100 a year plus annoying paperwork. I am investigating if it is required, as 'trading non-commerically' seems to exempt you (and I will be bringing in a grand total of £nil, actually more like £60 to cover costs, which will work out at around £6/hour by my estimates).

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By mrme89
20th Nov 2017 10:16

If you are not receiving remuneration from your 'personal opinion', then I don't see what institute rules you would be breaking.

If you start getting involved in doing the actual work, then you would at the very least need PI insurance, and you may also then fall within the rules for obtaining practising certificates.

If you did need a PC, would your employer be happy and believe you with your reason of helping family and friends, or would they think you are competing?

Ps you have not come across as cocky or overconfident.

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Replying to mrme89:
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By Constantly Confused
20th Nov 2017 10:31

mrme89 wrote:

If you are not receiving remuneration from your 'personal opinion', then I don't see what institute rules you would be breaking.

If you start getting involved in doing the actual work, then you would at the very least need PI insurance, and you may also then fall within the rules for obtaining practising certificates.

If you did need a PC, would your employer be happy and believe you with your reason of helping family and friends, or would they think you are competing?

Ps you have not come across as cocky or overconfident.

I doubt my employer would care that much, I'm here as much as at home and timesheets (should) remove any doubt as to what I do while I'm here. There is clearly a line somewhere between 'yeah that goes in box x' and 'I have prepared a summary of exactly what to put in each box on your return and the tax you will be due to pay'. I just need to make sure I am the right side of it.

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By Portia Nina Levin
20th Nov 2017 11:26

AFAIK, both the CIOT and the ACCA publish perfectly adequate guidance, which you should read

If you do all that is required by the guidance, then you won't have anything to worry about will you?

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Replying to Portia Nina Levin:
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By Constantly Confused
20th Nov 2017 11:30

Portia Nina Levin wrote:

AFAIK, both the CIOT and the ACCA publish perfectly adequate guidance, which you should read

If you do all that is required by the guidance, then you won't have anything to worry about will you?

Oh Portia, I will never cease to worry about everything and anything... but you are of course correct, I was just hoping for a more succinct version of the legal speak from the mouths of the AW posters.

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Replying to Constantly Confused:
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By Portia Nina Levin
20th Nov 2017 11:46

Even though you're perfectly aware of the cut of their jib?

Incidentally, do you recall the cocky comment that seemed to offend you so much? Or was it just the overconfident part that you didn't like?

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Replying to Portia Nina Levin:
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By Constantly Confused
20th Nov 2017 11:53

Portia Nina Levin wrote:

Even though you're perfectly aware of the cut of their jib?

Incidentally, do you recall the cocky comment that seemed to offend you so much? Or was it just the overconfident part that you didn't like?

Is that the AW user's jibbs? I am never aware from one moment to the next how that will be cut!

I'm not sure what you mean by your last part, AccountantA suggested I was cocky and overconfident, I was perplexed by this. Or are you suggesting I have since my original post embodied said cockyness (if so, it wasn't my intention guv).

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Replying to Constantly Confused:
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By Matrix
20th Nov 2017 17:50

It was AccountantA who suggested this, not me. I have been nothing but helpful so an apology would be appreciated please.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By Matrix
21st Nov 2017 11:51

Still waiting.

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Tom Herbert
By Tom Herbert
23rd Nov 2017 15:11

Thread closed at OP's request

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