What does HMRC expect of Agents?

Following a complaint that I made to HMRC I got a reply that leaves me puzzled

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Following a complaint that I made I got the following reply from the complaints handler; 'Whilst we should have done better we expect you as agent to absorb much of the inconvienence and frustration caused by our shortcommings'.  We do don't we,  but is this now HMRC's policy?

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
28th Jun 2022 13:03

To be fair that is about how I describe our tax return service for small clients who could probably do their own. ie "you pay us largely to insulate you from HMRC, not to work out your tax bill"

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By Hugo Fair
28th Jun 2022 13:33

Unusually honest, but has the ring of truth to it (including the usual atrocious spelling mistakes).

What was the context of the extract? If it was in response to a claim (or even a hint) for compensation, then it makes sense - if only as a bog-standard rebuttal; whereas if it was just thrown into the mix for no obvious reason, then it's a tad aggressive.

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By David Ex
28th Jun 2022 13:51

jeep wrote:

Following a complaint that I made I got the following reply from the complaints handler; 'Whilst we should have done better we expect you as agent to absorb much of the inconvienence and frustration caused by our shortcommings'.  We do don't we,  but is this now HMRC's policy?

Surely that’s someone’s having a laugh there. I’d be sending that to my MP and the head of HMRC. Absolutely inexcusable.

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By JCresswellTax
28th Jun 2022 13:55

That cannot be serious, I would be taking the complaint further if I got a comment like that!

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By Tax Dragon
28th Jun 2022 14:08

I wouldn't complain about the comment (I don't like discouraging honesty) - but I might feel encouraged to pursue the original complaint. Depending on what it was. (And maybe that was the message the handler was hoping to send?)

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Tornado
By Tornado
28th Jun 2022 14:50

I think this just confirms my feeling that HMRC expect us to 'absorb much of the inconvienence and frustration caused by our (HMRC) shortcommings' but they will not work with us or provide any sort of incentive to us to help them out.

MTD is a classic example where HMRC have made a complete mess of the project but expect us to bail them out for no incentive whatsoever.

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DougScott
By Dougscott
28th Jun 2022 21:50

Absolutely unbelievable. I would certaily take that further if it's real.

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By Calculatorboy
30th Jun 2022 08:11

I wouldnt be pushed around like that . Off with his head. Hmrc needs to try and act professionally .

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By LAMBERTCLERICAL
01st Jul 2022 10:17

Shoot the messenger!

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Replying to LAMBERTCLERICAL:
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By Tax Dragon
01st Jul 2022 10:36

Indeed. (That was the point I was trying to make but you have succeeded in making it and done so much more brilliantly.)

You don't improve an organisation by grassing on (complaining about) those that give you an insight to what that organisation is thinking.

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By Ben Alligin
01st Jul 2022 10:26

I was recently told by an HMRC employee that HMRC had no requirement to follow tax legislation. In my best J McEnroe impersonation I retorted 'You cannot be serious'!!

They are totally out of control. We need to go on strike and refuse to sort out their mess/incompetence. The whole system will soon come crashing down.

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By ourpetsheadsarefallingoff
01st Jul 2022 10:34

If that's real, it's shocking. It may well be honest, but it's absurdly unreasonable - why on Earth should we be expected to suffer the repercussions of HMRC's own admitted shortcomings?!

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Replying to ourpetsheadsarefallingoff:
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By JacquiMBurns
01st Jul 2022 14:15

It could also have included something by way of a grovelling apology.

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By Tax Dragon
01st Jul 2022 10:37

If we don't.... who will?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By JamesDS
01st Jul 2022 11:44

Tax Dragon wrote:

If we don't.... who will?


The taxpayer always suffers "the repercussions of HMRC's own admitted shortcomings"
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By Ammie
01st Jul 2022 10:43

This only spells out the extent of contempt some parts of HMRC have for us and in particular to challenging their work, which at best is below par and at times excruciatingly painful to deal with.

At some senior levels they do behave as if none of the laws we have to follow apply to them, and I have been told that in the past. I am sure that they do sometimes say and do things just to push us to the limit for their entertainment.

I have always got ongoing cases which should take a 5 minute phone call to resolve but ramble on for months and often never get resolved. That's the digital world for you, as bad as it is good.

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Replying to Ammie:
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By JacquiMBurns
01st Jul 2022 14:18

They were still trying to transfer a VAT number from a sole trader to his (then) newly limited company, originally requested in November 2019(!!!) when the client & I gave up & deregistered for VAT last month.....is this a record?

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By Richardrussell
01st Jul 2022 11:04

Wow. At least we know where we stand in HMRC's estimation.

Does it also mean they provide a better service to non-represented taxpayers, as there is no agent to absorb their shortcommings?

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Replying to Richardrussell:
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By JacquiMBurns
01st Jul 2022 14:19

Nope but they can probably fob them off more easily!

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By Vallery Lee
01st Jul 2022 11:19

Whilst I am horrified, I am not surprised. Yesterday I spent between 2 and 3 hours trying to sort out why HMRC rejected a revised CT600 because, I was told I used the wrong accounting period. When I checked, this was not true.

During the second phone call to try to rectify this, I was told I had been removed because the client had appointed someone else. (I have worked for this client for about 12 years). I checked with the client who had done no such thing. Took the easy way out and have applied for authorisation again.

I am thinking of sending HMRC an invoice for the time spent, I do not feel I should bill the client - perhaps this is what HMRC mean by absorbing inconvenience and frustration, I am certainly frustrated by this incident and will take the matter up again with HMRC once the authorisation code is received.

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Replying to Vallery Lee:
By mydoghasfleas
01st Jul 2022 13:35

HMRC answered the phone twice, "You cannot be serious!" Holding for that amount of time to that awful jazz bass riff, you are clearly made of the right stuff.

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Replying to mydoghasfleas:
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By Vallery Lee
01st Jul 2022 14:21

Although they answered the phone twice - I have not said how long I was holding on each time, could probably add another hour to the bill!!

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By mydoghasfleas
01st Jul 2022 13:32

Can you imagine how well, "Whilst we should have done better we expect you as HMRC to absorb much of the inconvenience and frustration caused by our shortcomings" would have gone down?

It's pretty clear the Taxpayer's Charter, does anyone know to which taxpayer it applies anyway, has gone out the window. But if an agent sent the above then I am sure "HMRC: the standard for agents" would be brandished toot sweet.

My view send it to Sir Jim Harra, he will probably be a Lord by the time it gets answered. Rather than addressing it to him as CEO, Ringmaster of HM Risible & Circus.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmrc-the-standard-for-agents/...

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Replying to mydoghasfleas:
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By JacquiMBurns
01st Jul 2022 14:21

Probably more chance of receiving a decent response from Sir Jim Hacker from Yes Minister.

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By Andrewmoore777
01st Jul 2022 14:49

Absolutely unbelievable. When one has told HMRC that something is wrong and they need to correct it, how is one meant to 'absorb incovenience and frustration' when they do not get off their backsides to make the necessary corrections?
I have a strong suscpicion that, rather like the DVLA, there are too many HMRC staff working from home.

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